V60

MWJB

Zephyp Makes sense re. ‘flat/muted/cloudy’, to me it sometimes feels swampy/stagnant, maybe like peaty water (if you’ve spent time in rural W Scotland you might know what I mean)?. The balancing act is between not too flat/not too sharp/sour. There’s something with over-long brews, they may not extract any more but the flattening of acidity is a turn-off for me. My guess (and that’s all it is) is particles breaking down into the water to a larger extent?

This particular coffee is generally a 7/9. The 30g/30s scored 6, the 15g/20s scored 6, the 17g/20s scored 7 - all 210g total BW.

Zephyp

MWJB Does the bed draw down between pours with such small pours? At my current setting on the Lido, it just draws down before the next pour. I don’t know if that matters. I’d think it causes a bit more agitation, perhaps lifting the extraction a little compared to having a standing bed.

MWJB

Zephyp I don’t think it matters, nor has an impact on extraction.

When you have standing liquid over the bed, this will be due to a finer grind, which will still extract normally because it is finer.

MWJB

MWJB Video posted showing how to fold Rombouts No.4 papers for use in V60/Switch 02 with Drip Assist.

You have to grind coarser & slow the pour rate to normalise brews, compared to the old, white, medium crepe in & out papers.

Now settled on Setting 94.5 on my Niche Zero, as with the Ode V1.1, sifting gave me 6% at 400Kruve…I had expected to have a little more under 400 with the Niche, but apparently not so.

LMSC

MWJB Now settled on Setting 94.5 on my Niche Zero, as with the Ode V1.1, sifting gave me 6% at 400Kruve

How are the taste scores with 6% compared to 9% or 12%? Is there a variation in average taste scores as you may have brewed some coffee? I know you are doing shorter pulses (20g every 20s).

Thx

MWJB

LMSC The pulses for the Switch 02, Drip Assist with Rombouts #4 are as per the video at 30g/30s, each pour taking 15s, to 210g total. 2 centre, 5 in the ring.

For V60 01 (not 02) with Rombouts #2, no Drip Assist are 20g/20s, each pour taking about 10s in spirals, until standing liquid over the bed (coffee dependent) then pouring just in the centre. to 200g total.

All doses 13.8g.

I’m not looking, nor expecting an increase in scores over previous brews with the Hario med crepe and 12% at 400Kruve. I only compare 2-3 conditions with the same 10 coffees, those 10 coffees can be greatly affected by the season/what’s available.

I’m just looking for a comparable alternative to Hario med crepe V60 paper.

In the next couple of days I’ll have done 10 coffees each, direct pour 01 brews with Feldgrind 12% (30g/20s), Ode V1.1 6% and Niche Zero 6% at 400Kruve (20g/20s) and will update this thread

Zephyp

It is interesting how you ended up that much coarser with these papers, across multiple grinders, and getting good brews. It seems such a big adjustment for a change of filters.

I’ve been looking at Mark’s sheet for the black and pink bagged 01 papers, and perhaps it isn’t as surprising that different grinders require a different setting, but makes me wonder what the difference is. Grind distribution?

Wilfa Unicorn/Uniform: Setting 24, 8%<400
Ode V1.1: Setting 3.33, 9%<400
Nice Zero +NFC: Setting ~73-75, 10%<400
Feldgrind v1: Setting ~32-35, 12%<400
Comandante X25: Setting 20-21, 8%<400

Most brews with a 7-8/9 score, always 40g/40s.

Did I imagine it or was there a Yotube video of the 40g/40s recipe?

Do you have a sheet with logs from using the new Hario papers?

MWJB

Zephyp One way to look at it is that a filter paper is like a net, the coarser the weave, the more particles that will pass through, so grinding coarser helps mitigate particulate getting into the drink (you can clearly see what I’m talking about if you look at a metal. permanent filter). I haven’t any means of analysis for filter paper porosity, but I’d guess the Hario med crepe have generally smaller pores, than the Rombouts?

If you take the 5 grinds above (for Hario Med Crepe, 40g/40s), the variations (stdev/avg) at Kruve intervals are as follows:

400 19%

700 15%

900 14%

1100 25%

1200 33%

1400 55%

…so the smaller end is generally more consistent between grinders than the larger end of the distribution, but the middle seems even tighter. Doing a rough, ‘back of a fag packet’ analysis the d16 (16% mass) variation is around 9%, d50 around 6% d84 around 11%.

The variation in grind distribution Q factor (square root of the span +/- 1x stdev) is only 3%. Avg Q factor is roughly 1.56.

So basically, the differences in avg grind size seem fairly small, as does the difference in grind size distribution quality (Q).

The 2 grinders that scored lowest, to my preference, are those that ended up being set to the coarsest grind, rather than having similar Q values.

Yes, there was a video of the 40g/40s method, but I pulled it, along with a bunch of other V60 videos as they had no ongoing value, following the withdrawal of the Hario med crepe papers.

LMSC

Square Miles Colombian Filter

15g, 12% 400 Kruve, 225g water, and a dry bed at 3:33 mins. A nice and sweet coffee whose acidity, taste and flavour are as in baked / stewed apple. It does have hints of nutty finish. The coffee has so far scored an average 8.25/9 from a few brews.

Zephyp

Time to get back to it, with some new gadgets. The 54 setting with Red Clix may not be 100% like 27, but it’s a start. I added a pack of Filtropa papers to compare with the others I got.

Zephyp

Trying to sum up the experience so far with Rombouts.

Going finer helps with balance, though not perfect, but introduces pith, unwanted mouthfeel. I like the taste better, but not a fan of the side-effects.

As I move the grind coarser, the pith and unwanted mouthfeel disappear, making it cleaner, but the brew gets more acidic and sour, leaving a lot to be desired on balance. Acidity is expected, but looking for more sweetness. Could be mostly EY, but the brews with higher EY has still been commented as lacking sweetness.

In the coarser range, brew time is longer due to more pours to lift EY, which can have negative effects, but I don’t know how it impacts the brew in relation to the other aspects. Some of the really long brews going up to and over five minutes have been muted, cloudy.

Whichever direction I go, something is improved and something else gets worse. It’s a very fine balance with a seemingly small sweetspot, if there is one.

Got some coffee coming in next week that was described “coffee coffee, tastes like coffee”. It’ll be less acidic and interesting to see how I get on with it.

I brought the Lido 3 home that I could try some brews with to compare. I also got some of the old Hario papers that I might compare against, but I want to improve the brews first.

Happy with the Hario Switch so far. I really like the valve design with the water pushing the ball into silicone to seal it shut.

The DA also sits better on top of the glass dripper than the plastic one.

MWJB

The clarity/sweetness/mouthfeel balance is typical, whatever the paper you use.

I see you have changed both pour regime & grind setting for each of the 4 most recent brews. I’d stick to one regime for a few, just tweaking grind. Then if grind doesn’t do the job, look at pour regime.

Zephyp Whichever direction I go, something is improved and something else gets worse. It’s a very fine balance with a seemingly small sweetspot, if there is one.

Look at the sweet spot as a scenario that is generally giving improved/desired preference, rather than a brew by brew target (which, of course is up to anyone to pursue, but detrimental to overall consistency if you need to start again for every coffee).

Zephyp

MWJB Yeah, the last brews were partly to make something that wasn’t as sour for a change and to touch base at some other setting/regimes I’ve tried before, though perhaps not an identical setting. Wasn’t expecting miracles or looking to tune it in. Using four different beans doesn’t help, but I suddenly had four bags open.

The Kenyan from The Coast seems more soluble based on the single brew so far, but it was perhaps too fine. I’ll need to do more brews with the new axle. I haven’t had a cup with that clean feeling yet that I had at 26-27 before, so I guess I’ll go coarser.

I don’t want to chase perfection with each bag or bean. As long as I get consistently good results, some highs and lows are fine. For now the main goal is to get rid of the unpleasantness.

I’ll pick it up at a setting close to what I think 26-27 used to be and keep at it. Regimes in the 17-25 g per pour area.

MWJB

Zephyp I’ll pick it up at a setting close to what I think 26-27 used to be and keep at it.

Your sifting results suggest 49-50 would be equivalent to 26-27 without RedClix?

Zephyp

MWJB I got some results with settings over 50 that I attributed to finer settings on the standard axle (pith), and may have gotten turned around by some sifting numbers. Those brews were with different settings and pour regime, so it was not a very scientific approach. I’ve looked some more on the numbers, removed one sifting result I didn’t trust and made some charts. Based on the first three sifting results with Red Clix, the trend line for 13% was spot on setting 46, so I tried on there, but it came out a bit finer, so I’ll go a bit coarser again tomorrow. This also showed in the brew with a 5:15 dry bed. Around 48 seems to be accurate based on the few numbers so far.

I now do three minute shaking with 400 and 800 sieves. Could make for a bit more accurate results than the two minute shaking of the first results.

I believe you mentioned seeing a +/-1% variance when sifting. How much of that you think is the grinder? It probably changes from grinder to grinder, but seeing how big change one or two setting steps up and down can cause, a variance in the grind from 12-14% if the average is 13% seems big. Some of that can perhaps be attributed to the Kruve, and using different beans is perhaps not helping either.

MWJB

Zephyp I believe you mentioned seeing a +/-1% variance when sifting. How much of that you think is the grinder?

I think it is mostly the coffee itself.

Zephyp

I wonder if sifting changes how the grounds and particles arrange themselves in the bed. That being shook, separated and then combined again makes it more compact.

I had a brew with a 5:50 dry bed and think I’ve had similar experiences before, where sifted grounds extends brew time.

It raised the EY, but introduced some off flavors maybe caused by the long brew time or EY. I’ll stay on this setting and regime without sifting and see how they compare.

So far I see the advantage of Red Clix, being able to use grind to tune the first stage and not have to rely entirely on pour regime once you find the best setting. It’s maybe only having 2-4 settings to work with rather than 1-2, but still useful.

LMSC

Skylark Colombia Wilder Lazzo Pink Bourbon Natural

https://skylark.coffee/collections/coffee/products/colombia-lasso-pink-bourbon-natural

It’s a nice coffee and was good across the brew medium. Brewing the usual 15g with 225g water gave a clean and a sweet cup at 12% 400 Kruve (#32 on the Duo), which I can liken it to Raspberries. The average score for this coffee was 7.5/9.

LMSC

Skylark Ethiopian ASHU SYOUM ANAEROBIC NATURAL

https://skylark.coffee/collections/coffee/products/ethiopia-ashu-syoum-natural-copy

Having sifted 60 bags to see where they all fall at 12% 400 Kruve, the average fines under 400 Kruve falls at 11.9% and most of the bags fall within + - 1% standard deviation. I would no longer be sifting every new coffee unless I see a noticeable change in taste at 12% 400 Kruve, which is #27 on the Duo, going forward.

I am not a great fan of Ethiopian coffee and I avoid them as much as possible. Looking at my logs, I have had the Ethiopians just 3 times in 2 years and liked 2 times. The two with Foundry scoring 7 and 8 and a third from Darkwoods scoring 7.5.

The coffee from Skylark had lots of floral aroma, a nice floral edge at the finish with a Cacao taste. The sweet fruity acidity as in strawberries was gentle and pleasant.

It is a nice coffee, but….., and scored 7.5/9. It is unfortunately darker for me.

LMSC

Rave Colombian Finca Monteblanco Citric co-fermented Natural

https://ravecoffee.co.uk/products/colombia-finca-monteblanco-citric-co-ferment-n-272?variant=50661202559144&country=GB&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADqw01ER0OQOL5tT79wbum4BNRzfU

While I am still playing with the Aromaboy between 70g/L and 80g/L, the Hybrid Hario Switch brew gave a very sweet and a smooth cup. Full of flavours - Sweet Citrus fruits - grapefruit and lemon, pleasant herbal tart edge. These notes were pleasant and not over-powering. The aroma was lemon/lime with strong hints of rose.

Brewed 18g, 270g water, 4:12 mins to dry bed and #32 on the Duo which is 12% 400 Kruve. Scored it 8/9.

MWJB

LMSC Rave Colombian Finca Monteblanco Citric co-fermented Natural

I was a little surprised at how dark this roast is, but certainly picked up the lemongrass & ginger.

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