[T](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/account/ "Account details") * [Home](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/) * [Forums](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/forums/) * [Coffee Forums](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/forums/#coffee-forums.3) * **[Technical | Faults | How-to's](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/forums/technical-faults-how-tos.20/)** # Elektra T1 Heat exchanger Espresso Machine Cool espresso [Tags](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/tags)[crema](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/tags/crema/) [elektra](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/tags/elektra/) [heat exchanger](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/tags/heat-exchanger/) **[Jump to Latest](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/post-878192)[Unfollow](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/watch)** **1 - 4 of 4 Posts** [T](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/members/twotone.8889/) #### **[twotone](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/members/twotone.8889/)** ##### **Registered** Joined Jan 13, 2015 509 Posts **Discussion Starter** · [#1 ](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/post-878167)· [Apr 14, 2022 (Edited)](https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/post-878167) Hi, just wondering if anyone can offer some advice. I have a 2007 Elektra T1 Deliziosa and I'm really struggle to get decent espresso. I buy beans fresh, on subscription, from Coffee Compass, and no matter the beans I rarely get crema however I know that the lack of crema is not an indication of the beans not being fresh and the size of the cup can make the crema almost non-existent but I'm not getting any crema regardless of the beans and regardless of where I buy them from, in the recent past I've bought from Rave and Redber and a few other roasters who advertise on here. I have a La Cimbali commercial grinder with, I think, 73mm burrs and it grinds perfectly okay. I grind 14g and pull 28/30g of espresso in around 35 seconds and I have also adjusted the grind to go long and short but no difference. I mainly drink milk based coffees so as a result I didn't really notice this issue too much but I've been tasting the espresso recently and to my mind it's not very hot and I'm wondering if this is the reason that I'm not really getting decent crema? The machine seems to be functioning properly, the hot water dispenses at around 95degrees C in a cup and there's plenty of steam but the coffee in the cup is only around 70 degrees C and it comes out the brew head at about 77 degrees C. I regularly clean the shower screen or replace it and I clean the brass shower screen holder (for wants of a better description) and I clean out the eight or so holes in that I do this at least once a month or sooner. I also flush the machine before making an espresso to cool down the heat exchanger so that the coffee doesn't burn but and the machine is on for sometimes an hour before making a coffee and sometimes it's about ten/15 minutes. Thanks for any replies. Tony I started a thread on the old forum here guys might save me re-posting photos etc. https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/#post-878175

A bit of an update. I removed and cleaned shower screen and brass dispersion thing with the ten holes and gave both a good clean I also removed the top nut on the group head to clean out anything in there, the nut has a spring and a shaft type thing that fits over a bolt which I think is the solenoid below the group head so I'm presuming when you push the button for a shot of coffee then the solenoid pushes the spring up to allow water go through the group head but either I've not re-installed the assembly properly or I've managed to block something up either way I'm not getting water out of the group head now😞

It sounds like the machine is scaled up, what sort of water are you using? from the pressure guage the pressure looks normal at around 1.2 to 1.3 bar. This sort of machine needs at least 30m to warm the group/p[ortafilter up before it's ready to make coffee. > @"Twotone2"#p15383 the nut has a spring and a shaft type thing that fits over a bolt which I think is the solenoid below the group head so I’m presuming when you push the button for a shot of coffee then the solenoid pushes the spring up to allow water go through the group head but either I’ve not re-installed the assembly properly or I’ve managed to block something up Do you have a photo/s of this part

Hi @"DavecUK"#p15408 Thanks the part is no 6 in the PDF drawing below it's an injector much like a pilot injector on a boiler. I sorted the machine by cleaning out the hole in the injector which is tiny 0.9mm I think, the temperature differential is now about 1°C. I might dial back the pressure stat to what it was before I adjusted it yesterday, the steam and hot water temperature are a good bit hotter than before, might be a good thing though? I replied in a bit more depth to a poster in the old forum who has been suggesting a few things. Here's the link including photos which I updated earlier on this morning. Thanks again. Tony https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/#post-878233 https://www.home-barista.com/downloads/Elektra_Sixties_1gr_Parts.pdf

Hi @"Twotone2"#p15479 Tony I have this machine. Its almost certainly scale in the HX, when mine starts to run cool brew temps that's always what it is. I have a very fine thermocouple jammed in the group bell so keep a close eye on it. 2 options - crack the top cap on the head as you have and remove spring arrangement/gliceur jet etc and descale in separate bowl. You also then need to remove the front cover above the drip tray and undo the left hand pipe to drain the HX from its lowest point (messy, have shallow tray to catch water - remember to turn water off before you start all this if plumbed in 😀 ). Put pipe back on, then refill HX from top group cap with descale solution, I use food grade citric at 30g/L. Leave an hour, drain out via bottom pipe again, and repeat. Option 2, open HX from on top of boiler. Often requires gorilla socket skills and a new gasket so maybe try other way first. Hope that helps - shout if you need pics/more help Matt

Hi guys, I'm still struggling with this machine, the espresso is a bit shit to be honest and I'm at a bit of a loss now I've ordered a naked PF with a 21g basket which should arrive tomorrow cause I think I might be having issues with channeling but despite buying fresh coffee beans from various different places I don't get any crema, ever and the coffee isn't great as I said in my OP because I drink mainly milk based drinks I don't really notice it much but in an Americano or an espresso the coffee would be sent back if I was buying it in a cafe. Basically I'm not managing to pull decent shots within a 25/30 second pull despite the grind then I either get long times ie around 60 seconds from when the coffee comes out of the spout until I get about 28 g in the cup (I'm using the stock 14 g double basket) so if I go coarse the coffee stream starts blonding almost immediately and if I go fine it takes ages and drip drip drips out of the spout no steady stream, no honey like constancy just basically poor coffee. Last week I replaced the solenoid valve (part number 18) after having a word with the guys at espresso services in Govan they also gave me some Jaguar phosphoric acid descaler which I used to descale the top part of the group head by removing the hex nut (part no 1) and pouring some descaler in and leaving it for about an hour then flushing. The problems have gotten less with the new solenoid valve (a bit of an improvement) but it's still not right the guys at ES thought that the issues might be 1) SV 2) pump head 3) scaled up HEX but I checked the pump with a blank disc in the PF and I'm getting 8/9 bar on the left hand gauge but I know that the gauge could be faulty but it does seem to be working fine ie 2.5 bar without the pump engaged and 9 bar with it engaged. The boiler pressure up to temp reads about 1.3bar as I previously adjusted the pressure stat which did make the coffee in the cup hotter and I videoed & timed the water coming through the group head at about 60 seconds/90g and temp of the water from the group head is around 94/5 degrees C. So obviously I'm going to take the machine into ES for a proper service and have them look at it properly as there's only so much advice they can offer from my descriptions of what's going on but I want to try to eliminate a few things first or at least be able to provide more information so I've gone back to basics ie fresh beans freshly ground, tamping, distribution and hot cup and flushing the machine which is why I've ordered the naked PF but I don't think it's operator error it may be that I'm not flushing the machine properly but I've started flushing it for around 25 seconds before a shot and again no difference to the coffee from before when I was maybe only flushing it for about five or six seconds. The only other variable is the grinder which is a La Cimbali Magnum grinder with 73 mm burrs which I bought second hand from a member on here about four years ago the burrs were brand new as I recall when I got the machine and I grind about a half a kg of beans a week but I've no idea if the grinder is faulty certainly the grinds look okay to me but who knows and I don't have another grinder to try however my son has a cheap Delonghi KG89 grinder that we bought him for Christmas so I could probably try that in order to rule out the grinder. Apologies for the length of this post but any advice & suggestions etc would be appreciated. Thanks Tony

@"Twotone2"#p19093 Does sound like the grinder could be the problem assuming you must have tried coffee from various reputable online sources.

Thanks @"DavecUK"#1, I've been looking at when I bought the grinder it was about around Feb 2016 so I've had it for six years now. I was thinking about just buying a grinder online or maybe asking the guys at ES for a loan of one to rule the grinder out. Tony Found the for sale thread. https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/sold-la-cimbali-magnum-£200.27266/#post-380772

@"Twotone2"#p19102 Did the problem start suddenly?

@"DavecUK"#p19105 No it's been ongoing for a good 18 months I'd say I was buying beans on-line from one of the roasters on here during the first lock-down and I was struggling to get decent espresso so just put it down to the beans at the time, the guy send me fresh beans and it was still the same so I bought from other places and really no difference then I started looking at the Elektra as the culprit but I'm thinking that I've not change how I do things I think the Elektra is working okay now so the only other thing is the grinder.

@"Twotone2"#p19111 When did you last check the burrs and that the screws were tight?

Elektra T1 Heat exchanger Espresso Machine Cool espresso

Twotone2

DavecUK

I’ve never checked them, easy to do?

DavecUK

Twotone2 I’ve never checked them, easy to do?

It’s pretty much the same as when you open the burr chamber to clean the burrs and surrounding chamber. I use a toothbrush on the burrs, with the screws, just use a pin on the griive to clear it before checking they are nipped up properly with a screwdriver. After that you can have a good look for any damage/wear.

Twotone2

Thanks, I cleaned the burrs and reset them and there’s definitely an improvement I’m now getting near the 30 second pull and 28 grammes (40sec/29g) and there’s some crema but the machine’s hasn’t warmed up properly yet.

I’ve photos of the burrs they look okay to me but I’ve no idea if they are?

Tony

DavecUK

Twotone2 I’ve photos of the burrs they look okay to me but I’ve no idea if they are how do you post photos here?

Just drag and drop

DavecUK

The burrs look OK. I assume you have been single dosing, how close to the burr touching/zero point are you having to grind for espresso?

Twotone2

I set the burrs to the touching point then backed them off and I’m now grinding at number 10 I did grind at about 6 but that was way too sour and slow.

Previously I was grinding between 16 & 20.

Twotone2

I’m using Coffee Compass mystery beans 14 I had these before and they were fine in milk but this latest lot of beans seem a bit lighter and maybe fruitier than I remember the beans previously.

The espresso is still not good, the sourness has gone (almost) but the coffee isn’t much better than it was before I re-set the burrs in the grinder, it’s a bit meh to be honest.

I ground a bit coarser there but the pour started blonding about 15 seconds in.

Just to be clear I’m starting to time when the coffee starts going into the spout in the PF not when the pump stars.

DavecUK

Twotone2 Assuming the beans are not too old, that looks awful……

Can you make a video with sound, show the brew pressure gauge as well if it has one.

Twotone2

I don’t know the roast date think there’s only a use by date on the bags but I only bought them (2kg) last week so they should be relatively fresh.

Previously I was buying CC’s espresso deal ie three bags of beans (500g per bag) and those were just the same in the cup and I bought a kg of fresh roasted beans from ES last month (they’ve a new roastery) and again not much difference.

I’ve got a video showing the water coming out of the brew head but I’ll take another one tomorrow the brew pressure is around 1.2 bar since I adjusted the pressure stat but the coffee was poor when it wasn’t adjusted and the brew pressure then was about one bar.

I’m going to take the machine into ES tomorrow and let them service it and at least then I’ll know if it’s me or the machine. I’ve ruled out the grinder as being the problem.

Thanks for taking an interest Dave.

Tony

PS, how I do post a video here?

DavecUK

Twotone2 I’ve got a video showing the water coming out of the brew head but I’ll take another one tomorrow the brew pressure is around 1.2 bar since I adjusted the pressure stat but the coffee was poor when it wasn’t adjusted and the brew

You mean the steam pressure was 1.3 bar, the brew pressure is something completely different and should be around 9 bar.

To place a video on here, upload to YouTube (unlisted if you want) and then simply paste the link here. Other methods involve downloadable links and videos that disappear after 6 weeks…not great for those that follow in your footsteps with a similar problem.

Twotone2

DavecUK

Thanks 9 bar pretty constantly I checked it yesterday (suspected a dodgy pump) with a blank basket 2.5 bar static I can rig up a pressure gauge on the portafilter if it helps?

I’ll post a video in the morning.

Tony

Here’s the video I took last week it just shows the water coming out of the group but I seem to remember that the water was ‘pulsing’.

DavecUK

Twotone2 That’s not right at all, rig up a pressure gauge, but the flow is piss poor.

Twotone2

DavecUK

Will do I’ll organise something tomorrow.

Thanks

Twotone2

Just been looking through the old emails from the seller I purchased the machine from back in January 2019 here’s what he said initially when I contacted him about the machine.

And BTW, someone has definitely been at the machine at some point in the past as there’s PTFE showing on a few joints at the HEX etc.

*Starts*

"Yes it’s still for sale (even though I still really want to keep it).

It’s 12 years old now made in 2007. It hasn’t been used for about 6 years now. I drained it and stored it. I turned it on for a few seconds just to make sure the pump hadn’t seized up and to take the picture showing it on. It’s all descaled and was frequently back flushed with cafiza when I was using it.

I’m only selling it as it’ll just end up being put in storage. It’s never been serviced as it doesn’t need it. If I was keeping it I’d probably get the pump serviced as it’s been sitting for so long but it doesn’t need it."

Twotone2

Some photos from the for sale advert Jan 2019.

![IMG_20180919_134654.jpg](blob:https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/216f1b86-d2cb-458c-8fff-204cf64de6ea)

Twotone2

Video taken this morning showing pump pressure and static pressure.

DavecUK

Twotone2 When you did the previous video of water from an open group, what was the pressure gauge reading?

When I watched it it was a steamy mess with virtually no flow. Certainly not the flow expected of a rotary pump. It was almost as if the pump wasn’t priming, perhaps there was air in the heat exchanger and for some reason it wasn’t able to pump. Was the group cold or was the group hot, in other words do you ever sometimes find the group cool.

Something’s definitely not right, perhaps it’s a very low slow flow due to limescale blockages in the brew circuit?

Twotone2

Hi Dave, I can’t recall exactly what the pressure gauge reading was but it never really changes so I’m presuming it was as the latest video ie pump pressure 9 bar & 2.5 bar static and boiler pressure at 1.2 bar.

I live in Glasgow so soft water here and the machine is plumbed in but the machine was bought from the North east of England so not sure if there is hard water there.

Regarding the group temperature I’ve tested it with thermocouples and the exit water with a temp pen and it’s never been cool but the coffee in the cup isn’t hot I’ve had it up to about 80 degrees c but sometimes its down to about 70 degrees c the temp of the coffee is what made me start looking at all of this.

This thread below contains some details of the temperature etc.

I’m going to get some fittings this afternoon to fit a pressure gauge to the PF but my understanding is that if the pressure at the PG on the PF is still 9 bar then that means there’s a blockage depending on the amount of water coming out of the group head but I tested that last week and it was 90g of water in about 60 seconds which is, as far as I can find out, isn’t too bad.

However if the pressure is well down at the PG on the PF then indicates either a blockage or a faulty pump?

I’ve cleaned out the dispersion screen and the shower screen and the filter and descaled the group head and also cleaned out the jet too.

I’ll post the PG/PF filter later on.

Reading the post below again then it’s obvious that the machine was probably blocked at that jet since I bought it or it got progressively worse over time however the coffee initially for at least a year after purchase was excellent consistently.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/elektra-t1-heat-exchanger-espresso-machine-cool-espresso.65862/#post-878851

John_Yossarian

You have got a beautiful machine indeed, although a bit dysfunctional at the moment.
As @DavecUK has pointed out it most likely boils down to a blockage, which once removed will make a funny story (I know the laugh is not there at the moment).

You simply do not get flow through the system. I have had a rotary pump machines before and they could fill up a cup in 30 seconds unlike your first video.
Are you handy with disassembling the machine and look for the culprit?
How easy would it be to descale the boiler and the pipes without disassembling it? You can try 5% citric acid to play safe.

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