Hello New member here. Stuck in a dilemma choosing which machine for first time espresso. I currently use a nespresso machine with a moka pot now and again. I have decided enough is enough and I want coffee as good as coffee shops, or at least hope to eventually obtain results like them. I have been looking for weeks and narrowing it down then each time I discover a new machine and it throws me off my previous decision. I am thinking of either a dual boiler or hx as I would like the pid to give me a more accurate temperature in the thought of a more stable shot. I hope my thinking is correct in this sense. I do tend to always want to get the best I possibly can. I have narrowed it down to the profitec pro 600, the lelit elizabeth or the bezzera crem pid. I can also get a sage dual boiler for 950 with a discount code. It wouldn't be my first choice based purely on looks I think I want a bit more traditional looking machine. The elizabeth has all the features I could ever possibly want or need but again the profitec pro 600 has the looks. I was always trying to stick to around 1000 to 1200 pounds budget for machine. However I can get a brand new pro 600 for 1400 pounds from outside the UK. What I really want to no is, is the pro 600 worth the extra money. Will it be easily maintained compare the the elizbeth or sage with the e61 group head. I am thinking if I spend more money to get a machine with as many positive features as possible I will have no excuse to want anything else for a long time to come. Are there any benefits of dual boiler over hx? Are they hard on electric as i will be doing one or 2 drinks in the morning then off again apart from weekends when will be one more. Quick heat up time would be advantage but a smart plug can get around that side of things. I drink americanos, flat whites, cappuccinos and hope to start enjoying espressos. My girlfriend drinks lattes. Mostly just me and her with guests here and there. I am planning on getting a niche zero grinder to use with my chosen machine, unless any of yous have other choices. I like the idea of single dosing to switch beans easily and also as I am not in house all day with my drink being consumed before work I'd rather not have a large hopper full of beans. Little retention is also what I am after. Sorry for so many questions and hopefully they don't sound too silly. If anyone has any other suggestions or advice it would be greatly appreciated. I am afraid of going in too deep and being overwhelmed but also afraid of wanting more after a few months and costing myself more in the long run.

Can't comment on the machines as I have never owned any of the ones you have mentioned, but regarding the Pro 600 and buying outside the UK…be careful. Hopefully the retailer will have a decent warranty (2 years) but sending an expensive machine outside the UK if things go wrong with the machine would give me palpatations. The Niche Zero is a good option for a grinder in my opinion - I have had one since November/December last year and it has been really consistent for espresso based drinks.

@"Beverast"#p15592 I live in Northern Ireland so even shipping to the U.K is a nightmare for us now and I honestly can't find anywhere up here that does any machine of this type. Sage is the popular one from currys etc. That's why I'm hoping for the most reliable machine possible to hopefully rule out ant potential issues and from what iv read the parts in the pro 600 can be replaced so if I'm really stuck I could do as much as possible myself apart from descaling which I hope to avoid by using ashbeck water from tesco. Good to hear about the niche. It seems to get very positive reviews everywhere iv looked. If I may ask what machine do you use yourself.

@"kram1988"#p15593 I have an ECM Puristika single boiler. No steam wand so espresso only - I only drink espresso or americano's at home so it suits my needs at the moment.

@"kram1988"#p15591 Firstly welcome to the forum! I don’t think there is a better community right now for you to be starting your espresso journey! Secondly, I’m a newbie like you so please bear that in mind with any of my advice, I’ve not been around long enough to give you definitive answers! (Although I’ve learned that those on there that do have the knowledge, know better than to give definitive answers!) On the grinder as that’s probably easier, if you can afford a Niche and happy to wait for one to arrive then I don’t think you can go wrong. At the price point it’s pretty universal that’s it’s a great decision. I’m waiting for one to arrive so can’t speak personally yet but other than specific use cases (only wanting flat burrs or only doing pour over) I don’t think there is anything that can beat it. On the machine, have a read of the various threads on here for dual boiler v HX. There is a lot of great advice on here and probably all the knowledge you need to make a decision on that point. Next part for me was then new v second hand. I didn’t have the budget for new and was very lucky to buy a great machine (Profitec Pro500 non PID) at a great price from a member off here. But second hand isn’t for everyone. If that’s you then I would start with anyone that ships to NI and offers a 2yr warranty. That in itself might limit your options on machines. Budget wise it sounds like you are in the right ball park to be able to get a machine that you won’t want/ need to upgrade through in the medium or long term which I think I sensible. If you still have a choice to make then it likely comes down to features. For my very first machine, I personally didn’t feel a PID was essential, nor was pre-infusion or flow control. My taste is not skilled enough (I’m not sure it ever will be) to taste the difference of those variables and I knew I would struggle enough just to learn how to control dose, ratio and time to make a decent espresso. Then after all that, it comes down to old fashioned gut feel (for me at least) yes the Sage DB gets good reviews, the Elizabeth gets pretty much universally great reviews, but there’s just something about an e61 group head that looks, well, sexier (in my humble opinion!). Good luck with your journey, have a good look around on here, ask great questions and I’m sure you’ll end up with the right machine - look forward to seeing it!

Welcome! Hard to go wrong with a Niche Zero and Sage/Breville Dual Boiler. It's a very good set up that with the right puck prep will produce better coffee than most cafes who simply don't have enough time for the puck prep. That said, liking the looks is important IMHO and both the Profitec and Elizabeth have quality reputations. @"DavecUK"#1 will doubtless have a more intimate knowledge of your short-listed machines. PS if you shipping is challenging between UK and Northern Ireland try living in Australia 😱

Enjoy the journey. So much of the equipment is superb. Definitely start with a good grinder. It is key. In my view the best prosumer grinder is the Niche. You will never need to upgrade it. After that, I’m quite partial to dual boilers. The best bang for the buck are the Elizabeth, Breville dual boiler, and the Rancilio Silvia pro x, which just came out. Yep, the e61 machines are sexy, but for making great coffee, livability, ease of use, consistency, you can’t go wrong with these. I have the Elizabeth, and I love the fabulous software, ease of use and cleanup, and small footprint.

@"kram1988"#p15591 Liz is a fantastic machine, quick, quiet, sufficient for your needs and has a smaller footprint. Our @"MediumRoastSteam"#51 also has one for a while and might already be suffering from an upgrade itch. 🤣🤪 You can ask him if he is looking to upgrade and will sell his Liz to you. If you are happy to spend £1400, the ACS Minima will be perfect choice. It’s bigger, noisier than Liz and Bianca, a great machine packed with features for the price. We have a lot of users, who are super happy about it. The other machines like the Vesuvius and Bianca will cost you £1700-£1900. Niche is perfect. BTW, welcome to the forum. Great and well thought out post!

Thank you everyone for your replies. I really had my mind made on Elizabeth due to ease of use and functions of pid temp control, great steam and size. However always in the back of my head is the look of e61 group heads with levers. Quite shallow i no and i am sorry. @"Mark-drinks-coffee"#p15600 i have read numerous things on dual boiler and hx. I keep leaning towards the dual boiler with pid because from what i can read is, it gives a more stable temperature with zero flushing before use etc. Again, I could be wrong and for my type of use a hx could be more than perfect, that's why i have decided to ask for help. How do you find the pro 500? It was also something i liked the look of but when i found the 600 for almost the same price on sale i kind of ruled it out due to the dual boiler of the 600, which may be foolish of me if it would be better suitable to my needs. I really want something that i am going to be happy with for years to come @ "tompoland"#p15602 How long have you had the Breville Dual Boiler. From a lot of what i have read it does get very good reviews, however there does seem to be a lot of cases where after warranty people have upgraded to different machines due to the lack of getting parts from sage for repairs. Sage seems to be expensive for repairs once warranty is up. Realistically if i got 5 plus years from this machine for that price then it has surely paid for itself and an upgrade could be welcomed and from there i will no what i really need in a machine compared to what i think i want. @"dndrich"#p15603 The Rancilio Pro X was also considered but i did narrow it down to the Elizabeth between the two. The black in it looks great. If the Elizabeth came in black i honestly don't think i would be asking any of these questions and it would be on its way. There is just something i like about the e61 group head, but its the additional maintenance keeps me from committing to it. The joys of living in Northern Ireland where all i van go by is photos online and youtube. @"LMSC"#p15605 I have been reading through the ACS Minima thread and it does get alot of praise. I am going to be honest i never really looked further into it as i could only find it on blackcatcoffee but was sold out. I am not sure coffeeitalia for ordering off. Bella Barista would be my ideal choice due to the high level of praise they receive. There is a place down in Southern Ireland that i can get profitec and another does Rocket machines. If worst comes to worst i can drive down and return a machine for warranty repair if it did happen that i could not fix myself. I really am hesitant paying a large sum of money to even have to ship it off to uk again. I worked for a very popular delivery company for a brief time years ago and i can comfirm there is zero care taken when loading parcels from lorry to van, at least from what i saw. £1500+ for my first machine, as much as i would honestly love to just seems far too high considering i need a grinder and tools etc as well as probably about 5kg of coffee to get a drinkable shot haha. I really need to draw a line on price somewhere. I have started off looking at 500 super auto machines that quickly went up to 750 ish then over 1000. For that price i considered a niche grinder and either a bambino or a gaggia classic pro. After more and more research i decided to raise it for a machine around £1000 which brought me to Elizabeth and lelit mara x. This is where dual vs hx came into decision making. I am more sold on dual boiler with pid to maintain temps hopefully in return of conisitent shot after shot so i can turn machine on and enjoy it without temp surfing to find that sweet spot each time. Maybe the temp surfing is actually easier done than what i picture in my mind. Elizabeth seems to win here again. At the minute it all boils down to, is the profitec pro 600 worth the extra £350 than the elizabeth? Based on looks it is nicer but i cant base my decision off that alone, that's where i need the help of you guys who know best when it comes to the workings of machines. I hope from reading i have gathered up the information correctly on dual boiler, hx, pid temp control etc. If i haven't please don't hesitate to correct me. For all i know a hx could be perfect for my situation, or i could be correct that a dual boiler with pid would be more consistant and in the long run be worth the extra money to get many happy years use out of.

Profitect machines are good and if there service center is in the same country it makes sense. You will pay more for it. If you are at bianca budget then get the bianca imo its the best sub £2000 machine (i know there were cheap Vesuvius deals)

@"kram1988"#p15607 You are on the journey the majority here have been through. I too have started low (most recent example a kitchen hood, looked at something at £200 to end up with a Miele one 5 times this) but the important thing is to get one that will both bring you joy and serve you for years to come. The quality of parts in the ACS Minima would give you this with regard to longevity and it is a great machine. The double boiler is the way to go IMHO. I have had several HX (quality) machines and although you can start pulling good shots (I am not complaining as I enjoyed these machines very much) they are no comparison to a DB machine. In the end it is your money and your choice and whatever you go with, enjoy the journey. Good luck with the purchase.

Decisions

Rob1

kram1988 The elizabeth has all the features I could ever possibly want or need but again the profitec pro 600 has the looks

If you want something long term get something that you aren’t going to want to upgrade from. A dual boiler is a no brainer for me vs vs a HX, especially when the cost is the same or even less.

The E61 with the leva is a pain to maintain if you backflush regularly. I’m sure some with disagree with that but I prefer the solenoid e61 on the Minima, especially with the lelit bianca paddle on the group for flow profiling…

You can get the Minima direct from ACS.

As far as maintenance goes I’d probably never ship a machine anywhere (or take it anywhere) to get it fixed, I’d just do it myself.

If you use Ashbeck you’re still going to need to descale the service boiler at some point unless you just waste a lot of water on a regular basis…and it’s far from ideal water anyway.

All in all I’s say get the Elizabeth and an RO machine to supply the machine with good water rather than spending more on a HX that you like the look of more but you’ll have to do cooling flush routines with. Alternatively, if you do want an E61 and looks are really important to you, go for the Minima and stick a flow profiling device on the group - that’s what I have and have no reason to upgrade to anything, though I am tempted to try the acs lever machine.

kram1988

Very sorry for the late replies, have been out enjoying the Easter weekend.

Cuprajake I might be the odd one out when i say I think the Bianca would tickle my fancy a lot more if handles were black but asides from that i think the price is just too much for a first machine.

John_Yossarian from what I am gathering i do think i will be going to dual boiler route. There is a lot of love for the ACS Minima so i am going to have to bring it in to consideration. I am glad to hear of experiences from members like yourself who have tried both hx and dual boiler to let me no which they personally think is better.

JahLaza the rabbit hole seems to go very deep indeed. Always tried to convince myself i would never go down this route and that my nespresso was perfectly fine. However i follow many pages on Instagram and i have always admired the caramel like stream of goodness i have witnessed from bottomless portafilters which has led me to this current day of wanting fresh beans and each of their own unique characters and tastes. As you have stated you are from Southern Ireland is there many men who work on espresso machines if needed. It really is just taking a chance and hoping for the best when can not go and see things in the flesh. Did you buy your Elizabeth local or did you get it from the UK. As good as warranties are i don’t want to send my machine off for it to be dropped back in a far worse state than i sent it, but i do tend to worry and overthink sometimes, hence why i have so many questions. It was Dave C’s youtube videos that sold me on the Elizabeth long before i found this forum.

DavecUK i think dual boiler is more for me and now you have said about turning the steam boiler off it confirms it even more. when you say i lose the hot water function does that mean i cant use hot water if steam boiler is off. i was always liking the hot water idea on all these machines for topping up my espresso to americanos.

Rob1 i will admit the added maintenance on e61 levers did make me apprehensive at the start and again was another bonus point to the Elizabeth after seeing how easily Dave C done his back flushing in the youtube videos. Is the maintenance of e61 hard or time consuming and how frequently would you think it need done making 1 - 2 espresso per day. The minima sounds an interesting machine i am going to look further into it tonight after how many comments have been made regarding it so far. It and the Elizabeth seem to get a lot more love than profitec. When you say descaling with ashbeck at some point are you talking months or per year? If an RO machine is out of the question would a zero water jug offer any benefit or is RO the best and only way to prevent descaling. i will admit the water side of things and descaling dual boilers does make me hesitant on this situation as a hole considering no local help available, or at least that i no of for now.

Alexvs the price of the dual boiler does make it appealing with discount, however longevity make me think is it really such a good deal if you only get 2.5 years out of it. 5 years or more i could probably deal with that although a dearer machine lasting 10 years for few hundred more in my eyes is a lot more value for money. Our tastes in machines sound very similar. I would love to spend £2k but i still need grinder etc so need to be realistic with myself. i want happy medium of price and quality in both machine and grinder (niche has been decided). Was the ordering direct from Italy any hassle and how did it take? If there was an issue with machine would it be hard to rectify without serious costs of returning etc. I want to take in all factors before i consider going down this route and your personal experience would mean a lot to help me. Black Minima sounds very appealing looks wise, i sound very shallow haha. Simple maintenance would be a huge plus for me. More time to practice and enjoy my new toy. This water situation has me anxious though, it just seems to make it even more complicated than it already is.

Thanks for all your help so far it is really appreciated

Alexvs

I did very similar to you and searched for some time for the perfect machine, but to upgrade from a Sage Barista Express rather than a first. I decided I wanted a dual boiler as majority of my drinks are milk based and made back to back. I ruled out Sage machines as they’re not simple to fix and built to not really be DIY fixed. Plus you’re paying more for the name. I then ruled out the likes of the Elizabeth and Rancillo machines as not pretty and wanted something that will look as good as the coffee it would make. Obviously looks are very subjective but was a high priority that I and the wife liked it in the kitchen.

My selection came down to the Rocket, ECM and Lelit Bianca style machines around £1k - 1.2k or thought of going up to £2k and getting the Lelit Bianca as by far best feature set for the price as Jake has said. So I started researching and found the old CFUK forum which at the time was very useful in helping me find the ACS Minima which never came up on Google searches.

I then found the guys here and took all the info I could and settled on the Minima. Just after enquiring directly with ACS about one I was lucky enough to see a bargain on the old forum and eBay, which also came with the Bianca flow paddle fitted so quickly snapped it up. I’m so glad I did as has been an amazing machine and really can’t see myself upgrading as does everything I want and some. You’ll find many happy owners on here with most buying from ACS directly where it’ll ship from Italy. You can also choose between stainless, black and white and then wood style finishes or standard black for the knobs and handles. Maintenance is very simple as no lever to have to grease and so on and I have mine on a smart plug so have it on and off through the day when I need it. So the Minima is definitely worth a look if you like its angled looks and E61 group as hard to beat for the price.

Beware, this forum can quickly spend lots of your money haha. I also have it paired to the Niche and that’s a great grinder, again hard to beat at the price for single dosing. Don’t bother looking 2nd hand though as same price or more than new most cases which is crazy, just be patient and get direct with warranty. I then also bought an Osmio Zero for water as didn’t want to go bottled or faffing making up water recipes. Again can highly recommend and if lucky you can get a grade B refurb for £250 like I did directly from Osmio, just ask them, if you go that direction that is.

Good luck finding your perfect machine.

JahLaza

kram1988 I bought mine from Germany as it was just after Brexit and was the only place with availability at the time (first covid lockdown). I have never needed to contact anyone about servicing as I have been able to carry out any of the tasks myself. If you were to purchase it from the only lelit retailer I know of here I would say he would service it from speaking with him. I don’t think you would want to be transporting it around though and you should be well capable of carrying out any repairs. To be honest if you use the right water you shouldn’t need to worry about anything anyway.

DavecUK

kram1988 The Elizabeth is probably the only machine I know of where the hot water tap works without the steam boiler needing to be on..

Rob1

kram1988 When you say descaling with ashbeck at some point are you talking months or per year? If an RO machine is out of the question would a zero water jug offer any benefit or is RO the best and only way to prevent descaling. i will admit the water side of things and descaling dual boilers does make me hesitant on this situation as a hole considering no local help available

It depends how much you use it, so I can’t answer.

If you sort the water out for the brew boiler you’ll just have to descale the service boiler, which isn’t an issue. Ashbeck will be fine in the brew boiler in terms of scaling but alkalinity is low which isn’t good for coffee or boiler health.

A zero jug will do the job but you’ll need to remineralise yourself rather than use a bypass or remineralisation cartridge.

kram1988

Very sorry for the reply. Appreciate all help and advice so far.

JahLaza After starting this thread and getting replies i didnt relaise the water was so in depth. I honestly thought a brita jug or ashbeck water was the perfect solution 😂

DavecUK I understand what you mean now. The hot water tap always appealed to me for americanos rather than usuing a kettle. Think it’s a novelty thing because its there I want to use it.

Gagaryn If it only needs greased once every month or two I personally cant see that annoying me. Obviously not having to do it at all is a bonus, a 5 minute job isn’t going to hurt me. I thought it was more in depth than that however I did watch a video of it being done on youtube yesterday and it did seem straightforward.

Cuprajake Temp stability would be something that appeals to me and is the reason iv decided dual boiler. In my thinking it removes one possible variable that could help my learning process. I wish the Elizabeth came in black I really think it would help the appliance look. All the features it has and the simplicity is hard to look past. There is far far too much choice in machines. I would find it alot easier if places existed close by to view each machine and see/feel the quality.

@ “hornbyben”#p15662 Thank you for your detailed reply. I have considered many times just going single boiler and hoping for the best but i am afraid of once getting it wanting more now that I looked into the dual boiler machines. You have give a lot of reasons why i shouldn’t rule it out, mainly the descaling one. I do think though i would rather buy a machine which already comes complete with pid etc rather modding a machine and adding to it losing warranty in the process never mind the additional costs which bring you to not far below the Lelit Elizabeth. I did see Lelit have some single boilers with pid already installed which could help the modifying part. The rancilio silver and the gaggia classic were the two i was interested in at the start before I read too much and kept upping my budget. Out of intesrest though where did you get he pid for the mod and was it hard to do?

drdre89 How long have you had the Rancilio Pro X and what did you start off with? I like to hear what other people started out on and why they progressed to what they use now and what made them choose it or feel the need to upgrade. I hope this helps me understand more and maybe jump straight in with a machine that will be more than i will ever need in the hope of costing less in the long run not needing to upgrade or chase things i should of considered at this stage of buying.

Cuprajake

For topping up you can always use a kettle

The beauty of a dual boiler is temp stability

The minima is a great machine, the bianca just refines it, quieter pump, cleverer brain etc

I too was tempted by an Elizabeth but it was too appliance looking for me,

The minima is a solenoid group so no greasing which is a plus

Gagaryn

In the interests of balance, I would just add that greasing of the E61 cam that many view as a faff too far literally takes five minutes or less and only needs done every month or two. I don’t see this is as too much of a chore - and I’m too lazy to weigh coffee beans or my shots. :-)

hornbyben

I know I’m in the minority here, but based on your stated needs I wouldn’t discount a single boiler machine.

The disadvantages are:

When you want to steam you have to flick a switch and wait to bring the boiler up to steam temp
- this doesn’t take long, maybe 30s or so. If you flick the switch as soon as you finish the shot then by the time you’ve flushed the group, and emptied and cleaned the portafilter you’re pretty much there.
- for two milk drinks I just pull the shots back to back and then steam enough for both drinks in one go
- for more than two drinks, after steaming you have to hit the hot water switch to refill the boiler, and then flush through until the temperature is in the brewing range and then wait for it to settle. This is obviously more hassle than a HX or dual boiler, but from your initial post you said you’d only be doing more when you had friends round in which case I assume you’re not in a rush.
you have to remember to refill the boiler
- this sounds complicated, but soon becomes second nature, especially when you understand how it works.
- for coffee, the pump runs, so the water that comes out is replaced by water being pumped in. When steaming though, you’re heating the water in the boiler and turning that into steam. This means the water in the boiler is being boiled off. Theoretically, if you steamed enough you could reduce the water in the boiler to less than the elements, and then when they run they could over heat. Refilling is easy though, open the steam valve, press the hot water switch (which runs the pump), and wait until water comes out.

The advantages:

they are cheaper, as you’re only paying for one boiler
they are smaller, as you only need space for one boiler
they are more forgiving of your water, because the boiler is continually flushed through (unlike the steam boiler of a dual boiler)
they are easy to descale, you just add descalant to the water tank, pump through your boiler volume (do in stages so you don’t wear your pump, the duty cycle is usually 90s on 30s off), let it heat a bit and then wait 20 mins. Do this a couple of times and then flush through until you can’t taste descalant in the water (if you use citric acid this is safe). I tend to alternate flushing through the group head and steam wand, as well as running a bit with the steam valve closed to flush through the opv. This makes sure every water path is descaled.
- my approach is that I calculated how long it would take to build up 5g of scale based on my untreated tap water and descale based on that frequency (2 months for me in the Thames valley based on 2-3 drinks per day). I then use a Brita filter, so the hardness should be less than my calculations, providing some error margin. This doesn’t guarantee I’ll never have an issue, but it seems to be working well so far, and I’m pretty comfortable stripping it down if necessary. For my Rancilio Silvia I can get a lot of spare parts for the price of an RO system (or electricity cost if distilling).
energy efficient
- the boilers tend to be a bit smaller, so you’re not heating as much water (this isn’t an issue for a few drinks), and for steaming your heating water that was already at around 90°C to 140° C, rather than a massive boiler from room temp to steaming temperature.
they tend to be easy to modify and work on if you’re into that sort of thing
- dimmer mod is an easy way to give flow control
- if it doesn’t have one many people fit pid controllers to give good temp control
- you can go the whole hog and add pressure profiling control with a microprocessor (this is where I’ve settled)

I’m personally very happy with my Rancilio Silvia, and I like the industrial looks. To me it looks classic rather than cheap, which is my opinion of some of the others. I do recognise that beauty is in the eye of the beholder though. I would definitely recommend fitting a pid controller though (or buying one with one). Stable temperature control is critical, and being able to see the temp really helps for consistency and knowing where the machine is (I.e. so you can start steaming before the element turns off for more steam power, or if you’ve flushed enough if cooling for more shots).

Anyway, I just thought I’d share a different perspective.

drdre89

If you’re going to get the Elizabeth just make sure to read the “Lelit Elizabeth pressure spiking thread” on this forum first. Otherwise it’s a great machine.

I have the Rancilio Silvia Pro X in black and it’s also a fantastic machine. No issues so far 👍

DavecUK

drdre89 If you’re going to get the Elizabeth just make sure to read the “Lelit Elizabeth pressure spiking thread” on this forum first. Otherwise it’s a great machine.

It’s fair to say that any new machines now, will have the modified expansion valve that was fitted or sent to any users with the problem.

So it’s not “otherwise” as the issue has been dealt with.

dndrich

Mine is perfect. I suspect I have the old valve, but no issues.

DavecUK

dndrich Mine is perfect. I suspect I have the old valve, but no issues

I understand there were 2 manufacturers for the old valve, one gave problems, the other didn’t.

hornbyben

kram1988 Out of intesrest though where did you get he pid for the mod and was it hard to do?

My first PID was one I had kicking round in the loft that work were throwing out about 10 years ago. In terms of how hard is it, that’s a difficult one to answer. Are you comfortable wiring, following a circuit diagram, etc. If so, then it’s not difficult, if not then I suspect it might be. I didn’t find it difficult, but it’s within my skill set. In essence all you’re doing is removing the wires that go to the brew thermostat and wiring them into a solid state relay that is connected to the PID. You then need to mount a temperature probe on your boiler and connect that to the PID. Finally you need to piggyback power for the PID (ideally switched so it turns on with the machine). The PID is then fitted somewhere (either internally with a cutout or externally in an enclosure). Make sure the wire you use is rated for high temperature, and if you use a metal external enclosure ensure it’s earthed.

I then upgraded to an Ito microprocessor. This was a bit more involved an install as it has a pressure sensor and controls the pump. I documented my build here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/256-poor-mans-decent-espresso-itoleva

At the end of the day though, the key is working out what’s right for you.

drdre89

kram1988 How long have you had the Rancilio Pro X and what did you start off with?

I’ve had it for just over 2 months. Here is my thread / review of the Rancilio Silvia Pro X on the forum.

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/434-rancilio-silvia-pro-x-in-black-landed

I initially started off with a Delonghi Super Automatic. And although it was convenient, it did taste like a $1 coffee at a gas station. I then upgraded to a Breville Barista Touch and it was good however the temperature stability was very poor and I had to keep flushing the group head to get it up to temp as it was very inconsistent and the grinder was annoying me.

Then upgraded to the Lelit Elizabeth and Niche Zero combo. Was initially happy however the Elizabeth started doing the pressure spike thing and kept going over 9 bars and was inconsistent. I tried to get the OPV replaced with my retailer however they were very poor to work with. So managed to get a refund (after a lot of hard work with the retailer) and got the Silvia Pro X as it’s the Elizabeth’s direct competitor non-e61 group head dual boiler machine. 👍

kram1988

hornbyben I will have a read through your build and see how it went. There is a chance i could probably do it fine but after buying a new machine and attempting this I think it would cause me some anxiety just incase it went belly up 😂 I do find it interesting though and makes me wonder why there isn’t a choice for factory build like this when it seems to be a mod that alot of people do.

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