I tried quite a few grinders in 2021 including an ECM Titan V64, Niche Zero (2x), Kinu M47 Classic, EG-1. I'm also waiting for a Malwani LIvi to emerge from the darkness that we call Australian Customs. Each grinder I've tried has produced good espresso but they are all different to each other so my question is not so much about THE best grinder but rather your opion on the best that you've experienced. "Relative to what?", you may ask. Relative to producing a thick, rich flavored espresso from medium to dark beans. Body is important, full flavor is important. Clarity is less important. Your two bobs worth is invited. Thank you in advance.

Conical would tend to give more mouth feel. Which of the grinders you tried were the preferred ones for you? Then can narrow it down Must admit just having got the niche it's not as massive a difference I thought it would be to the 83mm flat of the mazzer

> @"Cuprajake"#p17117 Must admit just having got the niche it’s not as massive a difference I thought it would be to the 83mm flat of the mazzer I think the differences are quite subtle. The other thing people don't realise is that the usual big commercial grinders designed to run with a full hopper of beans, in general were not built with close tolerances in mind. Unlike the more boutique grinders, Lagom, Kafatek, even Niche etc… They were built as rough tuff commercial workhorses, I guess you might see a bigger difference with a grinder that has closer tolerances? It's still small improvements, for lots of extra money. For some people they simply need the surety that they have the "best" possible grinder at the moment, often coupled with the "best" possible equipment. Usually this best is decided on price and cachet….can they taste the difference…who knows, is it worth it, yes it is to them. For me I simply want a cup of coffee with minimal faff….my interests also lie in improving "relatively affordable" equipment, as I can then have a positive effect on the enjoyment of coffee on the maximum number of people. Rather than putting loads of work/time into a relatively Niche product and you can't buy time.

The type of coffee you’ve described is my exact preference for espresso/flat-white. I’m not a world-class barista by any stretch of the imagination but I’ve made a **lot** of med-dark espresso. I also don’t have a huge amount of experience with comparing grinders as all but one of my espresso grinders have been flat burr. But to me, Mazzer (58mm and 64mm) just does such a great job of that style of coffee that I’ve come back to a Mazzer twice after trying other grinders. The Super Jolly I just got, despite being a pretty dated grinder these days, consistently produces thick, rich, chocolatey espresso over and over. For brew, I’d always choose a conical but for espresso, a big ol’ no-frills flat-burr will always be my choice. I’m also still not completely convinced that single-dosing for this type of roast has the noticeable benefits it does for lighter roasts vs on-demand. Before the pitchforks get thrown, I’m not saying there’s no difference, there obviously is, but dark roasts seem more forgiving to me. When single-dosing isn’t a factor in choosing a grinder it opens up a world of possibilities. VA Mythos, Compak, Mahlkönig etc.

@"DavecUK"#p17136 that will be all the addictive flavourings 🤣

Best grinder/burrs for medium and dark

Petre

Compared to Niche and DF64 with ssp hu, I’ve got huge leap forward in thick body, chocolaty taste and overall complexity from a Mazzer Major with stock TiN coated burrs.

tompoland

Petre wow great line up! Also super interesting to hear that the difference is so significant.

dutchy101

Petre

Can I ask whether you think the SSP burrs on the Solo are a worthwhile upgrade on the stock burrs?

tompoland

Cuprajake I liked the Niche and I really like the EG-1 and the Kinu M47 Classic. The Kinu gives a bit more clarity and the Niche a bit more chocolate (some would say muddy) flavor. Both give pretty darned tasty espresso. The EG-1 is for the best all rounder that I’ve had.

After 8 grinders I’m really resonating with what @DavecUK is saying about the differences being subtle and the chasing of probable diminishing returns of the Holy-Grail, God-Shot, Influencer-Endorsed, Boutique-Waiting-List-Cos-We’re-Amazing, End-Game grinder.

Kind of hoping that my grinder wanderlust will quiten down once I’ve dropped the Mazzer 83mm conical burrs into the Malwani Livi and have them seasoned and I’m cranking out some dark roasted AAA Kenyans in the Streitman and I’m blown away with the flavor.

Or maybe I just need someone to slap me hard and say “enough already, what you’ve got is as good as it gets” 🤔 🙂

In the meantime I would really love to hear your specific likes.

Cuprajake

tompoland I think that’s the case, I’d also put forward a placebo effect on that when people spend so much money it will taste better

DavecUK

Cuprajake I’d also put forward a placebo effect on that when people spend so much money it will taste better

Mind you, MC Donald’s seem to have been the exception. Very cheap and taste fantastic for some reason.

Petre

dutchy101 They are an upgrade, absolutely. But they did not feel like a ground breaking difference, especially for the price and the fuss to get them in the UK. I still went for other grinders few months later.

Cuprajake

DavecUK that will be all the addictive flavourings 🤣

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK MC Donald’s seem to have been the exception. Very cheap and taste fantastic for some reason.

Right. Now confirmed your tastebuds are not as good as they used to be. 😬🤦‍♂️😊🤣😉😂🙃🍭🍿

dutchy101

Petre

Thanks mate. Quite intrigued to see what difference that they may make, but wonder whether the outlay is worth it. Not to mrntion thr ball-ache of trying to align them

Tjyven

Just saw on instagram that Titus is about to release a new grinder. First it has a prebreaker and then a 74mm flat burr where you can choose between SSP, Gorilla and Eureka. Should be good for both medium and dark I think.

Sham

Tjyven First time I heard of a prebreaker, seems a bit pointless design wise? Just adds more failure/problem points?

Tjyven

Sham Really not sure, think the idea is to create “the right” amount of fines. Not sure but doesnt the Bentwood also have some sort of prebreaker?

audiomacgyver

Sham I think that Monolith does a dual set of burrs on some grinders.

“Dual-conical burrs, first in the world. 71mm “pancake” burrs designed and made in house for coarse pre-grind stage and 71mm Conical Burrs for fine second grinding stage (Mazzer 186c)”

https://www.kafatek.com/index.php/monolith/

Cuprajake

It’s ok, no one will be able to afford it anyway.

drdre89

I find smashing dark roasted beans with a meat tenderizer gives a nice mouth feel.

Tjyven

audiomacgyver I think the first burr set has about the same purpose as the prebreaker. Also Versalab and Honne have two burr sets but there the last burr set is flat and the first is conical.

tompoland

La Cimbali Max, then Versalab, then Hedone Honne (copy of Versalab) and now the Grindie all use/used a conical pre breaker on top of a flat burr. 68mm DRM burrs I think.

So the concept is not new and some say the concept yields the best of both burr worlds: the thickness of a conical and clarity of flat burrs.

(The Monolith MC4 uses a pre breaker too but both burr sets are conical.)

LMSC

tompoland So the concept is not new and some say the concept yields the best of both burr worlds: the thickness of a conical and clarity of flat burrs

Has some one measured and compared the yield for various roast types ? Of course, this will be very hard, given a lot of moving variables.

tompoland

LMSC not that I’m aware of. I recently read a “shoot out” style review series on Home Barista that was posted years ago where the La Cimbali Max was the one grinder that the group of reviewers rated as highly as the best Mazzer of time. There are a bunch of influencer reviews comparing the Versalab with other high end grinders but I haven’t seen one yet that sounded as credible as a Hoffman-style review.

On a side note, I’ve just put the 2.3 kg though the 83m Mazzer Robur 3 phase burrs. Up until 2 kg I was chasing grind settings all over the shop but it’s now more consistent and starting to produce some nice thick espresso from the companion lever. Once I’ve got a few more kilos through I’ll post impressions.

Tjyven

tompoland Will be very interesting to hear your thoughts of the Malwani, guess that is one of few big burr grinders you can get for a decent price, of course you then need to do all the hard work yourself… :-)