Too quick flow - what am I doing wrong?

larsg

Hello,

First of all, thanks for this amazing forum!

In a previous thread, you helped me select which new espresso machine to buy - the Lelit Bianca.

I have now had the machine for some weeks and am starting to learn to use it.

I have tried attaching a video recording of when I brew a cup of espresso, however, the forum does not seem to allow video files even though the size is very small.

Instead, I have uploaded the video file here: http://ifile.dk/d/2fJJ8LdYX8PeAt8bd1dk0x

In this video, I am brewing 1 cup of espresso.

I use the brewing basket that is rated for 18g of beans. However, using 18g of beans will cause the water to run through it way too quickly. So I tried putting in 22g and tamping them fairly hard. This produces an acceptable brew, however, I still think the flow is a bit too quick.

I notice that the lower manometer says that pressure at the pump is 10 bar while the manometer at the brew head says 5 bar. Is this normal? I would expect a higher pressure at the brew head, right?

I think the total brew time here is about 20 seconds. That is too quick for a double espresso, no?

Also, the cup is placed on a scale so that the total weight of the brew can be seen in the video.

So what am I doing wrong here?

Should I try going for 23g beans?

Should this really work with 18 g beans? Or is it normal to have to put in extra beans?

Is my grinder the problem and I need a finer grind?

DavecUK

larsg For Video, the easiest way is to upload to Youtube (as unlisted if you don’t want it announced to the world), paste the link on this forum, it will then embed the video automagically.

It also makes it super easy for members to view.

P.S. We don’t allow file uploads as we are the biggest forum on freeflarum and would overload their server. The commercial forums want files uploaded, because they can then own “your” data and sell it. We don’t do that.

DavecUK

larsg definitely need a finer grind, as you guessed.

I have taken the liberty of uploading your video to YouTube as unlisted and adding it to your original post. As it will soon disappear from the service you used and this thread would be have no video and no context. YouTube videos remain forever unless you remove them. It’s the main reason commercial forums want files uploaded…because it maintains their hits and advertising revenue, where as dead threads don’t.

Cuprajake

hi,

whats your grinder, and how old are the beans and where from,

18g in the basket is fine

theres a screw under the machine to turn the pump to 8 or 9 bar

larsg

Cuprajake

I just watched the video. This seems to be about adjusting the pressure at the pump. This is currently about 10 bar, so I guess that should be fine, right?

What I am concerned about is the pressure at the brew head. Here it is around 5 bar. Is this normal to have a pressure drop of about 5 bar? Or do I just have to use even more finely grained beans in order to increase the pressure here?

larsg

Grinder is Gaggia MDF.

Beans are probably 12 days since roast. Will check in a bit.

larsg

Just checked. The roast was 16 days ago.

dutchy101

Have you tried tightening up the grind?

larsg

dutchy101 Tightening up the grind? Does that mean grinding more finely?

dutchy101

larsg

Yes - go back to 18g dose and grind finer

larsg

dutchy101

OK. I think this is the finest my Gaggia MDF will grind. Maybe I need to modify the MDF in order to become stepless. Would that allow me to grind more finely?

https://coffeeaspirations.blogspot.com/2006/07/barista-guild-of-america-and-how-to.html

Or am I just at the end of the line with what I can do with a Gaggia MDF grinder and have to invest in a better grinder?

CafeNoir

larsg +1 as cuprajake said, MDF is an ok grinder however Bianca will probably never deliver excellence using such a grinder

Cuprajake

the grinder is limiting you

larsg

Cuprajake

Right, so what grinder should I go for?

Or I guess more relevant question to start with: What should be my minimum budget for a new acceptable grinder?

I think the Gaggia MDF was around 250 USD.

How much do I need to spend in order to get an acceptable grinder for espresso on the Bianca?

When I have a budget, I might start looking at various specific grinders….

I have been looking a bit on grinders:

I have looked at the Lelit William PL72 grinder. It is about 600 USD here. Is this a good choice?

Another one that I looked briefly on is Mazzer Mini Electronic B. This one is 850 USD around here. I simply cannot afford to spend 850 USD on a grinder at this time… So hopefully, something less expensive would be good….

dutchy101

When I upgraded my machine from the Sage Bambino Plus to the ACS Minima and started using VST baskets, I was initially quite surprised how much finer I needed to grind than I had before (using the DF64 Solo grinder). On some roasts I am down to setting 5 which really felt like a bit of a worry at first - not a long way to go from there but I’ve got used to it now.

I think you’ll really need to consider a new grinder to get the most out of your Bianca - as @Cuprajake says, it will be limiting you

larsg

DavecUK

Right, I see. And I can understand that.

However, I don’t have a youtube account and try to degoogle myself as much as possible…

Hopefully, the video link I posted does work.

Cuprajake

ah, your in the us? the eureka mignon, solo/df64 and obs the niche but they may be out of budget

https://www.wholelattelove.com/collections/all-grinders/products/eureka-mignon-silenzio-16cr-grinder-in-white

https://www.espressooutlet.net/turin-df64-v2-elr-single-dose-low-retention-espresso-grinder/

or ebay, local adds

larsg

Cuprajake

No, I am not in the US. I am in EU.

Turin grinders do not seem to be available in my country.

I have looked into Eureka Mignon. But this does not seem to be a specific grinder but more like a whole family of grinders.

I do not have enough knowledge to assess and compare the different specifications.

I saw one Eureka Mignon Filtro that was kinda cheap. But then I read somewhere that it would only grind very coarsely.

Then I found this one: Eurika Mignon Silenzio:

https://www.rigtigkaffe.dk/espressokvaerne/16604-eureka-mignon-silenzio-chromemat-sort-espressokvaern.html

Is this the same grinder as you are linking to? This is about 550 USD here.

Is this the price level I am to expect?

LMSC

I also recommend that you use a bottomless than the spouted. It will help your learning curve. You may also want to tell us a bit about your puck
prep; I am not sure you mentioned it elsewhere.

simonc

LMSC agree, describing your puck prep and ideally being able to watch from a naked pf will help. If there is a lot of channeling it might flow slower if you can reduce that for instance.

Ernie1

If you do decide to go the Mazzer route there may be some much less expensive options if you buy used. They’re incredibly robust and unless used in a high-volume commercial environment it’s often a safe assumption one that’s a few years old will perform as new.

As a side note, whilst a lot of people seem to get on with the doser models, for the sake of not adding further headaches to the potential issues with stale grinds I’d recommend a doserless version (the ‘E’ / ‘Electronic’ versions with a funnel instead of a doser).

larsg

Found this used Mazzer Luigi Super Jolly:
https://www.dba.dk/kaffekvaern-mazzer-luigi-super/id-1090467175/

Is this worth buying?

CoyoteOldMan

larsg Is this worth buying?

That Mazzer specifically, probably not.

It’s 12 years old (which may or may not be a problem, depending on who has used it and how over the last 12 years), but most importantly it has a mechanical doser, which means it really isn’t very good for home use: the coffee goes from the grinder to the doser, and from the doser to the filter - unless you are making dozens of coffees every hour, you are always brewing stale coffee! Not to mention that every time you switch beans or grinding setting you need to clean the whole lot (and waste a fair amount of coffee in the process)

You can modify it quite easily with a blanking plate, a chute and possibly a couple of electrical changes, but unless you are handy with metal fabrication and can make the plate and chute yourself, it means another USD50-100 in parts. Or you can modify the doser to reduce retention, which may be cheaper but requires more skill (in my opinion!)

You can get better machines - and if you are lucky cheaper, too - but it may take some time to find the right one.

larsg

Just found a used Eureka Mignon Silenzio that is 2,5 years old. This should still be good, right? It is only like 15 % off the retail price. But this makes it barely within my budget. Should I go for this? Or is the upgrade compared to Gaggia MDF to small?

Would I be better off with a very old Mazzer like this one: Mazzer Luigi Super Jolly
https://www.dba.dk/kaffekvaern-mazzer-luigi-super/id-1090467175/

Cuprajake

larsg where are you based

The mignons are ok. They go from 50mm to 55mm burrs, but some were designed for filter coffee only.

Petre

larsg I was about to chime in about retired caffe equipment. I had excellent results with Mazzer Major that was quite inexpensive and got superior cups than df64 and Niche. I would go for something like that BUT those grinders often don’t have a tidy workflow for home use or they will require some mods to improve that. They are also not that great with retention (without mods). Look through my other post for the pic of that grinder.