Anyone know where Skuma are with their RO Machine and if they ever delivered a test product to a volunteer on CFUK? I know they raised the money on indiegogo but things went quiet so was just wondering how they got on

All on schedule apparently. Test units were sent out and they took on feedback and redesigned certain features / functions - like increasing from 3l to 4l tank. I've bought one and there was a live demo last weekend. Expecting delivery in June / July. Really looking forward to receiving it. But still need to work out where it's going to go.

That’s good news and I guess on reflection it’s the investors at this stage who will be kept informed rather than Joe Public until they go to general production Room can be an issue but the wife has now accepted and adopted our Osmio 😀 Thanks for the info

Hi @"Uncletits"#p18421 , Alex here - production is on track and the first units should be rolled out as promised in June/July. Hopefully we can replace your Osmio someday!

@"SkumaWater"#569 Did you ever give one out for a CFUK volunteer to test? That was my original understanding of your introduction on that forum (9th August 2021) - I understood it was a crowdfunding campaign but I personally wanted feedback from a known reliable coffee user so never took it to the next stage Using poor water for 10 months was not an option for me so I got the Osmio and have loved it ever since including throwing our kettle away The whole Skuma situation went quiet hence my question

@"Uncletits"#p18460 since we had not yet developed the coffee concentrate and since we were already having some of our backers come to the office to test Sküma, we decided not to send the units to the CFUK volunteers for now. That said, we’ve recently worked with a few coffee guys and we have a formulation we are pretty proud of. We’ll do the announcement soon!

> @"SkumaWater"#p18479 worked with a few coffee guys and we have a formulation we are pretty proud of. We’ll do the announcement soon! This is great news, as long as the formulation to be used in espresso machines is non-scaling, I might be your next customer! 😊👍 But the non-scaling factor becomes irrelevant for pour overs, as there’s no boilers and above boiling point temperatures involved.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p18480 we’d love to have you on-board! Sküma with the coffee infusion is non-scaling (we’ve followed the SCA guidelines and our Langelier Index is -0.63 which is ideal for all PO as well as espresso machines) We’re closing our pre-orders in a few weeks from now and we’re offering our final pre-launch discount of **£220**. If you are interested just follow this [link](https://www.skumawater.com/) where you can use the coupon code **SKUMAEARLY** for the discount. Also, I’m a little confused as to what happened with CoffeeForums - why did everyone move over here?

> @"SkumaWater"#p18482 Also, I’m a little confused as to what happened with CoffeeForums - why did everyone move over here? https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/28-about-this-forum https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/83-what-corporates-can-do-when-they-monetise-a-forums-data/97 The forum they bought to plaster with irrelevant adverts and monetise, is now pretty much dead.

@"SkumaWater"#p18482 - do you have any idea on how often the filters need to be replaced? On the website it says every year, but isn’t that relative to the water hardness fed in? Also, do you know how much the filters will cost, or the infusions? Also, would it be possible to replace the infusions on the fly, or have a “blank” infusion? For instance, can I keep the “hydration boost” infusion for everyday drinking, and replace with the “coffee balance” when filling up the coffee machine, or have no infusion if I simply wat pure RO? Will it require flushing? I’m very close to pulling the trigger, but would like to know a bit more before I commit. Many thanks.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p18909 the filters need replacing every 500 - 750L depending on your water quality. If you live in an area with “hard water” (i.e TDS

Skuma

SkumaWater

LMSC Hi, its good point but I’d have to disagree.

While it’s true that we should rely on our daily diets for our nutrients (micro and macro) intake, vast majority of us don’t eat properly. Just look at how many people take supplements on a daily. And things are not getting any better. When it comes to RO water - everything we drink or eat impacts our bodies in one way or another, nothing is neutral especially when talking about hydration. There has been a number of studies carried out that have shown the health benefits of drinking mineral rich water (i.e negative correlations between coronary mortality and the presence of trace elements in water supplies - https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/51499/retrieve (p.62). This is especially the case for magnesium where drinking water contributes to 20-40% of your daily requirements (p.69 of previous source).

On the other hand, been no conclusive health benefits associated with drinking pure RO/demin water for a prolonged period of time.

Long story short, what we are trying to do with Sküma is to change the association of bottled water with “healthy water” by providing a healthier product in the most sustainable way possible.

(I can send you more papers if you’d like)

Gagaryn

SkumaWater

You claim “This is especially the case for magnesium where drinking water contributes to 20-40% of your daily requirements (p.69 of previous source).”

That is a remarkable over-simplification of the source data, using data that deviates from the mean in the hope that it better supports your claim, and still you manage to come to the opposite conclusion from the source text. The actual text from the document you reference, reads -

“Although there appears to be a close association of magnesium and cardiovascular disease, it seems unlikely that this relationship can only be attributed to a deficiency of calcium and magnesium in drinking water, because only 10-20% of the total daily intake of calcium and magnesium is derived from drinking water, unless that marginal contribution were significant to deficient diets. In some geographical areas, the magnesium content of drinking water may provide 20-40% of a person’s daily requirement…”

and

“It is true that the contribution of magnesium in water to the total intake may be small, compared to the amount ingested in food.”

DavecUK

LMSC Vitamins. minerals and fibre are important; but, we must always find them in our daily diets. The mineralisation of the RO water is only a taste enhancer. No one should depend on the water to provide nutrients to maintain the vitals. I do drink the RO water with / without the mineralisation cartridge. I don’t find any difference.

You are quite correct, the amounts of nutrients and minerals you get from water is miniscule and has no impact on your health. certainly drinking water with nothing in it will not harm you. Anyone with a remotely normal diet, gets all they need from that and more.

The whole RO water will demineralise you and healthy water thing is complete BS IMO. I didn’t study and get a degree to have learnt absolutely nothing about the human body. I wish companies would just sell the machine, point out the provable benefits an leave all the healthy ingredients thing out, especially dubious studies and associations based on bad methodology. Taking the rubbish out the water is benefit enough in itself.

LMSC

Thanks for the link. I will read leisurely. A few points are in order.

My comments do not take anything away from your successful campaign. We are aware some of our members have backed you. We would love to see products like yours succeed and provide a healthy competition and an alternative to the buyers.
We can have countless discussions. But, the mineral water, IMO, is only a taste enhancer. It is not like a supplement. All goodies must be found in our daily diets and where required supplements — if we fall short. We do, unfortunately. The latter is more relevant under current financial circumstances. Age and living conditions greatly contribute to the deficiency.
-If I think drinking water is going to take care of my nutrients, then I have a serious problem at hand. Drinking 2L Volvic water perhaps gives about 4% of calcium intake and about 2% of magnesium per day (on an average). So, I consider this as a taste enhancer. One may give or take a few %. It’s my personal opinion; it’s fair if others have a completely opposite view.
-Having spent 3 decades as a data scientist, I know we can’t compare the health benefits of mineralised RO water with the mineral water vs the benefits or harm the tap water provide. I will read that article and revert with my comments, if any. To understand where we are in the case of mineralised RO for health benefits, we need the mineral breakdown per litre, an independent test from a reputed lab, an unbiased review and a scientific study in a controlled environment, which must stand a statistical analysis scrutiny. We then decide for and against. Still, we can’t compare the mineral water vs the mineralised RO water.
-A data scientist would know how to play with the numbers; because, there is a proverb: statistics (data) are carelessly collected but carefully presented.

Sorry, if some members do not like this post.

SkumaWater

LMSC Agreed! All fair points. It’s good to keep conversation like these going, it gives us an idea of concerns potential customers might have.

Quick side note: anyone in this thread lives in London and would be interested in testing out our Coffee Balance Infusion?

LMSC

SkumaWater With respect to all members, I recommend that you also request @DavecUK.

The question, how do you propose testing it ? I reckon your intent is to test on any RO water or carry out a test like a lab would do - analysis, content breakdown per litre, etc?

dutchy101

I may be mistaken, so correct me if I am wrong, SkumaWater , but my understanding is that the coffee infusion is meant to be a special infusion that tastes good for brewed coffee as opposed to a special mineral content suitable for feeding espresso machines so the water doesn’t scale at service boiler temperatures?

I think if there could be such a composition made, this would be very popular.

Cro55y

SkumaWater

yes please i would be interested in tasting the coffee mixture and i am in London . I do have one of your machines on order and it is principally for coffee making. And aside do we get a choice which mineral cartridge or will it be No.1

dutchy101

From my perspective, I decided I needed some kind of RO unit when I decided to buy a prosumer coffee machine. The Skuma campaign came at a good time for me financially and the price was very attractive so I jumped in. It was only when buying a Zero water jug as a stop gap for feeding my machine that I took a TDS reader to my tap water - I genuinely had no idea how bad it was - I posted a reading in another thread on here a few weeks ago and it was 436. Even using a Brita filter, which myself and the family have been drinking from for the best part of 8 years now, only takes the TDS reading of water down to 250.

The Skuma with minerals will replace the Brita for my everyday drinking water and tea (my wife comments how much better the tea is when I brew it from my zero water through the machine). Taking away the need for me to remineralise this myself will save me a massive ball ache compared to if we were to all be drinking the zero water. If the mineralised composition of the Skuma water gives me a suitable GH and KH level for not scaling up my machine, then I can kiss goodbye to measuring out bicarbonate of soda and having to make up special RO water for my machine too. This will be the dream, but having far better quality drinking water for us all will be a massive win regardless. It looks like a fantastic product and I’m very much looking forward to receiving mine.

LMSC

dutchy101 I won’t be surprised if your wife and you (assuming you also cook) start drawing water from Skuma for cooking. 😊

SkumaWater

dutchy101 Thank you for the support! What water formulation do you currently use? Our current tentative formulation for the Coffee Balance is the following composition:. This formulation takes into consideration the leftover GH and KH post-RO filtration. What do you think?

Rob1

dutchy101 You can make your own concentrates for use in the skuma too. No idea what their composition is but you can have hardness and alkalinity with no scaling potential so long as you avoid carbonates. So you can use calcium and magnesium citrate, if you want 10mg/l sodium recommended by scaa then you can use sodium citrate. Bacterial grows in citrate solutions quite well though. You could also use sulfate or chloride sources but I would avoid the latter especially. If the bottle is sealed maybe it won’t be a problem, and the way the Skuma remineralises on the fly means you can just chuck 1 litre into the tank of the machine at a time if bacterial growth in citrate rich water is a concern.

There are probably other things you can use to get the alkalinity you want too, I was looking at gluconate and other things briefly a while ago but not in detail.

I’ve read a difficulty with citrate sources is that the buffering capacity continues at a lower pH than bicarbonates, so ordinary titration tests will not give accurate results as they measure how much acid it takes to reduce a sample down to an endpoint of pH 4.5, and citrates will continue accepting H+ ions beyond that. Again, not looked into this in detail to confirm.

dutchy101

If we do I’ll be kissing goodbye to the kettle for good. That makes a bit of room for the Skuma - stillneed to work out where it’s going haha

LMSC

dutchy101 We have not used the water kettle for the last 1.5 years. You won’t use the kettle for sure. We only feel a little handicapped while cooking pasta. We find 65C Water very handy for this purpose.

dutchy101

Can you taste the difference in the food you cook with the water?

Are you using pure RO water for cooking with or are you reminineralising before cooking?

LMSC

dutchy101 Too much of a faff to remove the cartridge on and off. We don’t remove for cooking. I don’t think we compared as blind testing, etc comes in.

Some examples are:

Tea and smoothies taste so different - nice and sweet.
Lentils, rice, veg and pasta cook quickly. They are fluffier.
the greek soy joghurt that we make at home benefits massively

dutchy101

Great stuff - I’m looking forward to seeing the differences

dutchy101

I hadn’t considered making up my own concentrate - that’s a brilliant idea, @Rob1

I’ll do the drop test on the standard water with minerals as a first step. Do you see anything in the composition of the minerals that you’d suggest I don’t use this composition for the machine at all? If so I’ll stick with the RO and reminieraliae with sodium bicarbonate as I’m doing currently until I can work out an appropriate concentrate

Rob1

dutchy101 Wouldn’t put that in the machine but that isn’t the coffee one they do, that’s their standard one for remineralisation of drinking water I think. The chloride is too high and the hardness from Magnesium would be about 230mg/l - looks like it will only have the alkalinity that has survived RO though.

MediumRoastSteam

Sources of potassium: bananas, avocados, potatoes, spinach, milk, salmon, oranges, tomatoes.

Sources of magnesium: avocado, spinach, bananas, cashew, beans, chocolate, brown rice, salmon, peanuts, broccoli, milk.

I find interesting the statement above, from the Skuma 001 concentrate, that those minerals are “becoming harder to find in everyday foods.”

dutchy101

Rob1

Thanks - yes that’s their standard remineralisation formula for drinking water so I’ll not attempt to use that for my Minima in that case.

As mentioned above, I think the ‘coffee formula’ is designed for taste and for use when making brewed coffee from the Skuma as opposed to necessarily being service boiler temperature safe for scale in machines, but I think we’d need Alex @SkumaWater to confirm this.

LMSC

The 001 is missing the Calcium element. Is the Calcium value Zero?

SkumaWater

dutchy101 Basically we have 2 Infusions. The first one is the Hydration Boost with the following composition:

This composition was inspired by performance electrolyte drinks (i.e LMNT, SIS etc) to replenish lost electrolytes and offers a smooth crisp tasting water due to the magnesium content

The second infusion is our Coffee Balance and the composition is yet to be determined but our current tentative one was shared in my previous comment (31.9Mg/37.4HCO/93.2TDS). We want to run a blind taste test with this formulation and see how it compares to your current water (tap, bottles, pure RO etc.). If any of you would like to participate just share with me your address and we’ll get the test kits rolled out over the next few days (we currently have 12 volunteers and we’d like at least 20). I’m actually now thinking of making a separate thread on the forum for it.

CoyoteOldMan

I know they were two different conversations, but I found this quite funny.

Sources of potassium: bananas, avocados, potatoes, spinach, milk, salmon, oranges, tomatoes.

Sources of magnesium: avocado, spinach, bananas, cashew, beans, chocolate, brown rice, salmon, peanuts, broccoli, milk.

Immediately followed by:

Wouldn’t put that in the machine

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