Review by Lance Hedrick, if any one is interested in. https://youtu.be/PBn223u7w2s

I agree with what he says, and that's what I find too. I prefer my mazzer, the niche works well for the Mrs milk drinks

@"Cuprajake"#p18736 Yeah! I saw your comment on his channel Jake! I can’t jusge as I am still a manual guy. Have been resisting to grab a Niche for > 1 year as it is another conical, though 64 mm. I am not sure it will make a huge difference to the cup compared what we have at home, except it is a massive convenience and a great workflow. I like medium to light roast and don’t mind medium dark for milk based. Brewing is very important for me. I would like an electrical flat; I still like my JX as it produces great shots, although it is a little boring to grind these days 🤣

Thanks for heads up.. A really well balanced review for sure. No big surprises perhaps, at least not for me. I had a Niche last year and sold it after a few months but was a little regretful. When a near new one came up for sale ast month, I pounced. It is such a charmer of a grinder. Small footprint, low height compared to everything else on my espresso island, easy and simple and certainly low retention. And in the cup, thickish and tasty for medium to dark espresso. Once I have the 83mm conical burr Livi seasoned I'll do a back to back comparison with the Niches 63mm conicals but with my indelicate taste buds I doubt that I'll be able to taste the difference.

That seems to be a reasonable review for his taste profile. I've only pulled maybe 25 shots with the Niche at work and 10 or so with grounds transported home from work. It is easy to dial in and make a tasty shot. In a perfect world I'd have a Niche and something with big flat burrs. I'm a sucker for berry / fruit flavor.. 98% of drinks are straight shots. Wifey drinks iced lattes.

Quite fair review. It’s funny how careful he speaks to not upset the Niche fanboyz.

He could have used any coffee in the world to pull his shot on, and he chooses a lightly roasted bean.......god, he woffles on and on! I emailed him a couple of times and he really tried to stress that he had no financial arrangement with any coffee equipment manufacturer........yea right

I do think he gave a balanced opinion, did not come out offending any one, appreciated the other coffee gurus really like them and so on. He didn’t say anything new, IMO. I thought he said it doesn’t work for him. Though he said it’s not conical vs flat, it is indeed that as he wanted clarity. As far as a light roast is concerned, I guess he used it to drive home his point as he seems to prefer light stuffs.

Not watched it all yet, but at the beginning he says the price has gone up and up - has it? I thought it had always been the same?

Price hasn't changed it will be exchange rates and import It's just a fancy way of saying he likes a different flavour profile, but and a big but thes a content creator and so far I have seen threads on 2 forums discussing his vid. Shock horror. It's spromethues all over again. There's nothing new to what he says, he's basically just describing the niche. 🤷🤷🤷

@"Cuprajake"#p18757 I take all this on board about impartiality, but if that is the case, why was there so much factually incorrect stuff? He is a poor Youtube influencer, claiming independence, heavily promoting Sage gear. In fact he went to OZ recently to review something for Sage.....wonder who paid for that trip? I wonder if his YT channel is monetised? If not, how does he make a living?

Niche Zero - One Year in Review

JHCCoffee

lancehedrick I am sorry I came off as insulting! Was not my intent. I actually tried really hard to ensure I was sensitive to those who enjoy it. I am a firm believer in “enjoy what you enjoy.” But, I had loads of people telling me of their buyer’s remorse when the Niche was not all it was cracked up to be. I originally was not going to make a Niche video because, well, I did not enjoy it much outside of traditional espresso. I only made the video (and tried tiptoeing) because I thought it might help people who are easily influenced with the fandom surrounding the Niche.

Lance, apology accepted. I am sure that you were well meaning. And I know that you have alot of expertise is your field, that you wish to share. I welcome the information, as all opinions are helpful. And there are many.

Now, you will have to for a moment put up with a lecture from a senior citizen. Please take this as constructive comment from someone who has experienced interaction with many egos.

There seem to be many many “experts” in your chosen coffee profession. They seem to agree on some things but disagree on alot. A number have oversized egos. It is difficult for us consumers to sort out the wheat from the chaff. But we are (for the most part) intelligent people, including those of us that have taken on espresso as a hobby. In this light, disparaging remarks, even if veiled, even if well intended, are not well received.

All of us on this board that bought the NZ are knowledgeable, thoughtful, intelligent people who researched their NZ purchase very carefully, including consulting amongst one another as to their experiences. Towards that end, everyone on this board has been and continues to be generous and helpful. I (and others) made a thoughtful and conscious decision to buy the NZ. Accordingly we do not appreciate being considered ignorant for doing so.

You (and we) all have knowledge and experience in our chosen professions. With age comes the wisdom that while while we may be more knowledgeable than others in some areas, we are not their betters. In the end, we all look the same in our graves. It is difficult for some executives and experts to realize that their advice is better received if delivered with respect, consideration and a dose of humility.

And as my wife likes to say …. “Its just coffee”. There are many more important issues to be solved in our time.

May I suggest that you remove your well intended review from Youtube and replace it with a humbler and more respectful video.

That’s it for my senior citizens lecture. I suspect that you are an affable fellow that I will like if we ever meet in person.

lancehedrick

JHCCoffee Hey! Thanks for the comment. I understand completely where you are coming from. I actually tried quite hard to ensure I was NOT coming across that way. Some people were actually quite upset with my video because how gentle I was in my critique. I want to repeat- my video was not meant to be negative. It was meant to cover an area that no one covers- the Niche, though the best conical in that price range and by far the best workflow under $1000 (as I say in the video), is not well suited for many peoples’ tastes. It is for these people I made the video. You rarely get online and see any negative commentary on the niche, so I thought I would take a moment to speak to its weaknesses, since there are plentiful videos speaking to its strengths. Without a doubt, it is the best perhaps up to $1500 for medium-dark roast espresso. And, if you enjoy darker pourovers, perhaps that as well.
But for many, this isn’t their style, but no one talks about the pitfalls.

Re: taking the video down, I likely won’t do that. If you can share with me some time stamps where I seem to deride people who own them, I’m happy to watch and make a public apology for coming off thusly. But, as it stands, I have had dozens of Niche owners comment on the video saying they loved the video and bought one based off my fair critique of it (best for darker roasts/chocolatey/etc).

I really meant no harm in posting it- simply trying to provide something I thought might be useful.

JHCCoffee

PS
lancehedrick and fellow NZ owners.

Once I receive and use my NZ for a few or more months, I will personally decide whether it works for me. If I am not getting what I expected from it, I will first consult with other NZ owners on this board. If I still cannot make it work me, I will then sell it. The journey will have in any event been fun.

I will then provide respectful thanks to the NZ owners who advised me along the way. Neither they or I are wrong or right; its just what works best for each of us. I have noticed that many people have become increasingly polarized in their views these days, whether political or otherwise; it is an unfortunate sign of the times. Fortunately, we respectfully share our experiences on this board (good and bad) so that each individual can make their own decision.

And did I say, its just a grinder ….

PPS

Lance, we all appreciate the knowledge and experience that you have built. So I welcome your ideas, suggestions and advice. Keep up the good work. 👏👏

tompoland

lancehedrick fair call Lance.

I dropped the ball on my own standards and did unto others (you) what I don’t like them doing unto me. I apologise unreservedly for taking a cheap shot and not choosing my words with more care. My bad.

I’ve been on the receiving end from time to time and whilst it’s mostly water of a duck’s back (40 years in marketing has oiled my feathers quite nicely) and I need to be leading by example not posting smart arse comments.

Sorry mate.

Thank you for reaching out. Lesson learned, I hope.

tompoland

I think that @lancehedrick being here setting the record straight, so to speak, is pretty much about the coolest thing that’s happened to this forum since @DavecUK launched it.

On top of having a celebrity here, it’s going to hopefully have some of us think twice before rushing to ego-based judgements about someone who we have not met and don’t know from a bar of soap. I’m not pointing the finger at anyone other than at me (but you know who you are 😆)

Reminds me … talking about rushing to judgement… I had a HB thread shut down purely on the basis that I was (a) asking questions about what people would like to know about a new grinder and (b) a member googling my name and discovering (horror or horrors) that I was a marketer by profession.

Wow, did that set off a storm. One member suggested I could be a Russian hacker (seriously), several posted using terms like scumbag (I can’t remember the words exactly) and more, before the admin jumped in and posted that he smelt a rat (marketer + question = guilty) and closed the thread. No one, including the admin, stopped to ask me if I was fair dinkum or said scumbag.

When I asked admin why he had closed the thread without reaching out, he replied that if I didn’t want the thread shut down then I should not have been asked “that type” of question.

There is no comparison of course, but it reminded me of that poor guy Ahmaud Arbery who was shot and killed by a father and son pair in South Georgia back in 2020. When questioned (it was recorded) by the local policeman at the scene of the crime, the father said words to the effect “well he was a black guy and he was running and if he didn’t want to be shot then he shouldn’t been running”.

Again, it’s not meant as a direct comparison of course but yep, I was a marketer posting questions about a grinder. Must have evil intent, right? (To be clear, I don’t market anything physical, my speciality is marketing systems for consultants and others who have intangibles to sell - the grinder reviews are 100% fun and a give back to CoffeeSnobs and CoffeeTime.)

And some of us have done an Arbery with Lance.

Sorry buddy. Our bad,

Amberale

tompoland

Sorry Tom and Lance but “best thing” I can’t agree with.
I don’t watch “influencers” ever.
No desire and celebrities???? ffs
If this forum descends into fandom then I am out of here.

lancehedrick

tompoland no worries at all! I don’t usually get ruffled by intense criticism. I moreso just don’t like the fact people dislike me for this or that reason and would prefer to work on myself through conversation. Appreciate the comments!

tompoland

Cuprajake funny you should mention Niche v EG-1. Kind of had to make some comparisons just recently for the Moca SD review (had all three of them on my bench for the review plus the Honne).

In the world in which my taste buds live, the Niche is the bees knees for dark roast Milan/Lever style espresso and if you like milk added, it’s pretty darned good even with Medium roasts (as per the Agtron color scale, as opposed to the Third Wave definition of Medium). And for those two I’d prefer the Niche over the EG-1.

The EG-1 shines better when you want to savour some origin flavors, which milk tends to drown out and which are harder to detect in Dark roasts.

So it’s really horses for courses.

No one can rightly say that one grinder is “better” than another. They’re different and each one tends to shine for a certain style of roast / drink preference.

tompoland

Cuprajake Would love to try different styles, but don’t know if it’s a down grade going to 64mm when I’ve been spoilt with 83

it would not necessarily be a down grade, depends on the burr geometry. Burr size, in and of itself, makes surprisingly little difference to the flavor. It seems to be a widespread misconception that bigger = better flavor. A bigger burr with a bigger motor will grind faster but the flavor from say a Helor 106 with 71mm Mazzer Robur burrs will taste the same as espresso from the 83mm Mazzer Robur burrs (same geometry) in a Key / HG-2 / Malwani Livi.

. I mean what you have is a pretty awesome grinder. But I hear you … trying different styles is a lot of fun.

dfk41

I know that everything is but an opinion, but, in anyones opinion, is there another grinder which equals the Niche at the same price point? I know about the Chinese flats like the DF64 but for me, they are not a competitor for a couple of reasons. Obviously they are flat so in theory produce a different flavour profile. Also, unless you close your eyes and put a lot of cotton wool in your ears, then you have to examine build quality and quality control. Exclude hand grinders from your thought as again, they are conical

tompoland

dfk41 for what the NZ does well, I’m not aware of any competition at that price point.

lancehedrick

dfk41 It really depends on what you are wanting. It is by and far the best grinder for people wanting to do espresso and enjoy dark to medium even to medium-light. Some have enjoyed with light, as well. I actually show this in two videos where the NIche beats other budget grinders (SD40 and Sette 270). I simply wish the Niche had another option of burrs and a lower RPM setting for those of us that might want something a bit different.
Anyway, if you are an espresso person and really only pull 1-3 daily, the Lagom mini is better for lighter coffees. I’d also prefer hand grinding for lighter coffees than use the Niche. To be completely honest, my niche sits in a cabinet unless I need it for blind comparisons. I simply don’t drink much coffees that are considered medium or dark (for those familiar with Agtron, I rarely drink below 90).
There are also more options at the price range elsewhere because the price is not 400 like in the UK everywhere else haha!

lancehedrick

tompoland I 100% agree with this statement.

tompoland

Amberale fandom? No. But cheap shots (guilty) deserve an apology when called out. That’s my call to make. It doesn’t mean there is any sort of fealty going on.

And don’t read too much into “celebrity” it’s a figure of speech.

DavecUK

Amberale I don’t watch “influencers” ever.
No desire and celebrities???? ffs
If this forum descends into fandom then I am out of here.

I don’t think that we will ever decend into fandom, especially as we have @dfk41 to always bring us back down to earth.

However, I’ve met Lance (didn’t ask for his autograph or a selfie with him). As I said we chatted for a long time and he’s a normal nice guy. If he makes money from coffee on YouTube that’s neither here nor there. If we had La Marzocco head of development on here it would make no difference. All are welcome, especially if they’re trying to improve things, or get more people to enjoy high end coffee.

With my work I can only improve things in the background. My videos are only interested to those who already took the blue pill. I do very little that encourages those completely new to coffee to find out more

lancehedrick

Amberale I would hope I could be a part of a conversation with enthusiasts without it devolving to anything other than a conversation re: coffee. There is absolutely no imperative to watch anything I ever make. To have a civil conversation, well, that would fall under Dave’s desire for this to be the friendliest forum on the internet ;)

Cuprajake

its an akward thing social media/youtube,

99% of the coffee people are plugging the next best thing, its only someone like hoffman who doesnt need the money who can get away with deep frying coffee, for instance.

we see the persona i bet there all really nice in real life,

sadly in this industry i find it hard to get shared knowledge

lancehedrick

Cuprajake as I said earlier, I pay for most of what I have. What I don’t, I actually give away. I also give away most of what I buy (I have given away about a dozen handgrinders, some espresso machines, and like 8 or so electric grinders). I do NOT have the means for this, especially shipping internationally. I just dive into my pocket because I already overspend any measly funds I make from Youtube/patreon. I am always fully transparent- I make about $2500 monthly from Patreon (you can check this- I have it transparent on the site) and about $2,200 from Youtube. I spent around $12,000 for my studio, around $10,000 for equipment, $1500 monthly for my videographer/editor, and an obscene amount on coffee gear.
Should be noted those monthly incomes are recent. Patreon has slowly grown and youtube goes up and down.

I work way too much so as to ensure I can be as bias-free as possible. For instance, before partnering publicly (and I was VERY public about it to be above board) with XBloom, because I consulted on the project and will be an ongoing advisor, I refused affiliate links from every company. Even Breville, whose Dual Boiler I have championed, offered me a 20% commission! because how many people became interested due to my *unsponsored and unasked for video. I refused this commission, even though it has cost me well over 5 figures.

I take very seriously my authenticity. I speak from what I know and, when it is subjective, try to make it clear I am speaking from taste. Obviously, being human, I err, but I try my damnedest.

Threads like these help me understand my shortcomings to fix for future videos.

Ernie1

I saw a post over on HB where someone summarised it really nicely. I can’t find the post now but it was something along the lines of ‘Best’ being completely subjective with such personal factors. The Niche is undoubtedly the ‘best’ if the criteria are ‘best at zero retention grinding across different brew types for under £1000’.

I got absolutely torn apart when I anonymously asked some opinions on the LMLM over on a different forum… ‘Upgrade your **** grinder first’! ’You can get 2 ‘x’ machines for the same price that wipe the floor with the LM’… ‘Get a Decent!’ etc etc.

But all of them failed to take into account that what’s important (as well as great coffee obviously) for me is - Looks great (in my opinion), comes from a long line of Italian heritage with many many years of proven success in the market. Both entirely irrelevant to what ends up in the cup but it’s why I haven’t bought a Decent and I’ve been reluctant (although admittedly close a few times) to buy a Niche.

I’d not argue that both the Decent and the Niche could far surpass the quality of what I can produce with a tired, dated ex-commercial grinder and an overpriced espresso machine but I know for certain I’d not enjoy the use and ownership as much. When spending huge sums of money on this hobby, enjoyment is so important.

Of course, in 50 years Decent and Niche might well be the Faema or Mazzer of the 21st century but only time can tell.

lancehedrick

Ernie1 if you are a fan of traditional shots, I don’t think you’d much enjoy the decent. I use it for “modern” shots, but have not once picked its replication of lever shots or 9 bar shots over other machines in blind tastings.

LMSC

I don’t buy anything or get influenced based on the YT or social media recommendation.

I watch some of them either because I like their presentation style or the review is about something of interest or I want to work on my skills (like Lance’s latte art, JH’s V60, no press French Press).

The common person - not like us - can get influenced. We can’t do anything about it.

lancehedrick

LMSC My hope was never to be an influencer, hence I never say “buy this or that.” Instead, I try to present whatever piece of equipment I have with information about it (though not as much as Dave) and what I might like or dislike about it. If it jives with someone so much they purchase it, well, that is not my intention and I see no money from this. I am passionate about specialty coffee and intriguing people to get into it.

lancehedrick

DavecUK didn’t ask for a selfie? What are you talking about? You had a shirt with my face on it and made me take at least a dozen from multiple angles and lighting. Most intense meeting i’ve had yet!

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK I’ve met Lance (didn’t ask for his autograph or a selfie with him)

What? And no piggyback ride either?

DavecUK I do very little that encourages those completely new to coffee to find out more

Perhaps not with a big voice, but I personally think you do a lot in that respect, starting from setting up this forum.

Cuprajake

i love to research, i just read and read,

the problem with this hobby is everything costs soooo much, esp when starting

basic starter pack £1500

the niche at its price point was unbeatable, tbf pretty much still is. most grinders need blowers, or varying speeds to clean grinds, its a jack of all trades, once we get further down the line then youre into big bucks, p64, key, eg1 to name a few there 3-4 times the cost (in the uk)

ive fallen for forum recomendations over youtube/instagram, what works for one may not for the next,

LMSC

lancehedrick It’s your review of what you thought of as Niche. I don’t own a Niche and I thought you tried to be balanced in your comment and yet making it amply clear where you stand with this nice little machine.

I don’t remember if you had said those comments / outcomes are also based on a full year of trying several bags of the similar roast type from various countries. Throwing in a summary of what you found to back it up might have been valuable as some data points . Such an exercise may or may not be worth it. I wouldn’t know if you records those observations as a reference for the future.

Ours is a popular, fair and widely followed forum. The clarifications, which you provided are very much appreciated. Hope you find time to stick around and contribute to improve things, enrich members’ knowledge and help them make some lovely cup of coffee at home. :-)

« Previous Page Next Page »