**Context** During my experience with coffee, every so often I get some improvements from some changes, but for me nothing made more dramatic changes than changing the grinder. I tried: Sage BE, DF64 with SSP HU, Niche, Mazzer Major, Mahlkonig E80 Supreme (it has the 807Lab Sweet burrs). **Status quo** Even tho it was the cheapest grinder of all, the best espresso I’ve got so far was the one from MM. It is balanced, it has fabulous body, with complex and intense flavours. **What next?** So currently I am enjoying this setup but the question is what to try next? Going to the same vertical, the only espresso I tried that beats my MM is done with Mythos 2 (at a coffee shop I frequent). I found this shot to have slightly thinner body (not as creamy as my MM) but the flavours were more complex and more intense - a very aromatic cup. Tbh it could be that MM has that thick body that can mask other subtle notes. Unfortunately Mythos 2 is difficult for me to find (at a decent price), and the very next alternative would be a used Mythos 1. Would you recommend this move? Do you think this makes sense as an upgrade? **Alternatives** Other (quite different) options I am considering, not necessarily as an upgrade but more to explore different realms: * Hand grinder, particularly C40 (a lot of ppl praise it) * EK43 (yeah, I know..) or other 98mm flat burr grinder, just on the premise “the bigger, the better” and to explore if they can provide more aromatic shots. **The machine** I know there is also the option to upgrade the machine, but on the paper at least, I just fail to see what a different machine can bring on the table. I own a Silvia Pro (DB, PID) which has dimmer mod and I can vary the flow from 100% to 0%. Maybe not as repeatable as Decent or a spring lever but it is there and I use it. **Beans** I’ve got my best cups from medium roasts. Very light roasts were almost always a failure for me (some were too sour, some had too much fermentation notes) but maybe if I get the right grinder for them, who knows? **Brew** Although not the primary focus, I am also increasingly more into V60 lately and a grinder that could also help with that (thinking of c40, ek43?) would be advantageous. **Budget** Depends on some “complicated” factors, but the budget is max 2K. So no new P100, new EK43, Flat MAX, and other rare gems. Those are reserved as the last resort if nothing else can do it. So what do you think, what grinder do you recommend me to try? Would you recommend try upgrading something else than the grinder? Cheers

@"Petre"#p18897 Wow! ! You have had an amazing journey with your grinders and MM is going to be a benchmark. Any change from here, IMO, needs to be a step up in performance (ie cup). My only concern is you may be getting into a law of diminishing returns. Having said, you have brilliant people who would know about grinders inside out. Let them expertly guide you through. @"Systemic"#8 has EK43 but, I think if my memory serves right, he fitted, Turkish burrs. I don’t think you need a hand grinder for brews, unless you want it for a change. You may have seen this JH videos. https://youtu.be/6LGeBcUZ9YA Please take a look to refresh your memory. Edit JH’s weber key review https://youtu.be/bQ-ta6s931c

@"Petre"#p18897 Perhaps it is time to upgrade the machine, someone with the same grinder may have a view @"Cuprajake"#144

@"Petre"#p18897 You should know by now what the threads like this may lead you into! I stopped short of recommending a machine upgrade than grinder! I knew some one like @"DavecUK"#1 would precisely do that! Go figure ! 😉🤣

SSP burrs for your major and then an ims e&b labs superfine basket. Loved my superfine with the Bianca, the 83mm burrs come up time to time but they came quick new.

@"LMSC"#p18903 haha, yeah, I know it is an open ended question, and although I am biased towards grinders I am considering anything that would give be a better cup! @"DavecUK"#p18901 Indeed I gave a lot of thought to this. What machines you think I should look for? Need to mention that my Silvia measured pretty solid in terms of temp stability, pressure and the flow is controllable through dimmer. @"Cuprajake"#p18906 I did not know about those baskets, are they better the VST? I’ll probably order some anyway. But much more importantly, and I always wanted to ask you: could you describe how the SSP HU compare with stock burrs in MM? Also, do you agree with my description of what stock MM gets you? (just so we have a calibration point).

> @"Petre"#p18913 Indeed I gave a lot of thought to this. What machines you think I should look for? Need to mention that my Silvia measured pretty solid in terms of temp stability, pressure and the flow is controllable through dimmer. Well, I reckon try a lever for the fun factor…..see how you get on.

There is one listed for sale! It is a steal at a discounted price. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/713-acs-vesuvuis-evo-leva-for-sale

Umm been a long time since I had the stock fitted. The ims cleans the month feel. The SSP give me a sweeter brighter cup

@"audiomacgyver"#p18918 I am using RO and remineralise it with epsom salt and baking soda. I’ve set it on BH#4 (80 gh, 40 kh) and did not get to experiment too much yet (with espresso).

Grinder Upgraditis - Mazzer Major + DB machine

Systemic

LMSC @Systemic has EK43 but, I think if my memory serves right, he fitted, Turkish burrs.

My original EK 2014 was specced by me with coffee burrs - had agonised whether to go for these or Turkish but, at the time, no one had one domestically and the only coffee shop that had one had opted for coffee burrs. Proved to be a mistake - with lighter roasts, coffee burrs could not grind fine enough so fitted Turkish burrs and problem was solved without losing the option to brew for pour over.

My current grinder - EKs is fitted with SSP burrs. Have a friend who has an EKs with stock Mahlkonig coffee burrs. Having calibrated both grinders - the SSP burrs give about 0.5 stops more wiggle room. So if a light roast requires the EKs with coffee burrs to be set to zero, mine would be at 0.5.

Apart from being a great grinder for espresso, the EK works equally well for pour over. Moving the grind setting from 8.0 for V60 to espresso setting is effortless.

LMSC

Systemic I was thinking this morning, we haven’t heard from you for a long time. I made a mental note to ask Dave. Here you are! Timing and

Giphy - Good Vibes GIF by Cavan Infante

!😊

Petre

Got it, turkish or SSP, coffee burrs are no bueno - noted. I kept looking for a month or two for some EK to appear on the used market, but no luck (around London at least). I don’t wanna buy new, it will probably be even more expensive if upgraded with SSP than Lagom P100 which comes SSP by default and it also does not have the EK alignment hell to go through. Look wise, the both are ugly AF so that’s a tie.

Systemic

Been rather busy !

Giphy - Cleaning Chores GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants

JahLaza

Didn’t want to start another thread and carefully picked this one as hopefully most appropriate!! I’ve a NZ which I will be keeping but would like to get an affordable flat burr again. You guys got me thinking about the royals in classifieds here but I don’t get any reply from either seller. The available ones on eBay don’t ship over here. Moving on..! I can get a second hand modded super jolly over here - what’s you guys experience over the years - is there much difference in the cup between 63mm flat burr and the 83mm (major or royal) in the cup? Apart from faster grind speed between the burr sizes, is there a significant difference in taste? I know it’s a subjective thing but keen to hear peoples experience. As always, thanx in advance!

Petre

JahLaza You’re sure you can’t find a MM? Last time I’ve checked they were everywhere and they were very cheap… I’d say it is a significant difference in cup quality between 64 and 83.

DavecUK

Petre You’re sure you can’t find a MM? Last time I’ve checked they were everywhere and they were very cheap… I’d say it is a significant difference in cup quality between 64 and 83.

It’s also very important to get well aligned burrs, makes another massive difference.

hthec

DavecUK how would you advise to do that? Would you advise marker test and shimming with aluminium foil strips?

JahLaza

Was thinking what you are saying in my mind but wanted to be ask the question. I’ll keep the eyes peeled for a mm now!

JahLaza

There’s a Mazzer major grocery I can get second hand. Anyone any experience or knowledge of it? How suitable for home would it be? here’s a link, ignore the seller, just for display purposes!!

https://www.coffeeitalia.ie/mazzer-major-grocery.html

DavecUK

JahLaza Probably be fine, no doser, a good thing. Always pop brand new genuine burrs in it.

CafeNoir

JahLaza FWIW, my grinder started life as a bag grinder. IMHO, it’s far simpler to convert to single dose because the electrics are very simple and it’ll probably have a front panel already.

DavecUK

hthec I guess you can try that, keeping in mind some types of misalignment can’t be shimmed out and tolerances on these commercial grinders are not that tight.

JahLaza

CafeNoir ok cool, as far as I know it does have a panel on front. I’ll know more when I hopefully get to see it (early next week if it’s still around). What mods did you need to do please? Did you change the dispense chute?

JahLaza

CafeNoir hi, what mods did you carry out on yours? I’ll be optimising it for single dosing also if I get it

JahLaza

DavecUK making me nervous about going near it now! I guess I’d have to actually do the marker test on inspection to confirm this wouldn’t I?

CafeNoir

DavecUK Think I got lucky here, which is a nice change, lol! Only needed a small amount (2 pcs mylar) of shimming to get a lovely even marker removal. I’m saving up for some shiny new Red Speeds (think that’s right for purely espresso?), which should likely outlast me

DavecUK

JahLaza making me nervous about going near it now! I guess I’d have to actually do the marker test on inspection to confirm this wouldn’t I?

No need to be, think about 2 rotating disks and the types of misalignment, a marker pen simply shows you rub points.

Below is a work in progress, it’s unfinished and I don’t know if I will ever get round to finish it. It takes a grinder where the upper burr is fixed and as part of the adjustment process is not rotated (e.g. K3 or ECM grinders etc..). I started this a few years ago. At least it gives you some things to consider. |Take it all with a pinch of salt, I can’t remember what comments I was going to put on the last image and I can’e remember if it replicated some stuff in the first image….enjoy

JahLaza

Thanks Dave,I saw that before, think you posted it on here. I understand the principle ok and that gives plenty more detail but is there anything I can check for when I go to look at it? I’ve read about checking for bearing wear, obvious mad noises etc. but how could I check for this here and are there other ‘obvious’ checks I could check for?

CoyoteOldMan

The “burr colouring” test at least is diagnostic, if the seller lets you carry it out… It is not a good indication of whether you can fix it, much less of whether you can fix it easily.

Cuprajake

depends its got aftermarket burrs in it, just put stock back in there not expensive,

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