MWJB If anyone has a tested & proven recipe with grind recommendation, I’m all ears.

If you are unable to make it work, we don’t stand a chance! 😆

I think, JH didn’t recommend either of them.

The challenge in these brew is both of them introduce ambiguity in the output as coffee powder needs to be absolutely flat. Brewing with a lower dosage is also difficult.

This reminds me of the Indian filter, which also rests crucially on correct dosage and right grind size. A lack of either of them can make the cup sour. A dispersion screen (aimed at addressing the puck agitation), which needs to go in after the powder is filled and levelled, results in a very long steep, which is also not ideal if one doesn’t have time at hand.

Thanks for your observations!

    These brewers sit in a weird space for most people. They don’t tolerate fines in a similar manner to a v60, they are very easy to clog, I think for very light roasts they can be interesting especially with a large flat grinder. Although they can extract very high percentages, I think it doesn’t always equate to a good drink.

    Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more

    • MWJB replied to this.

      @MWJB

      Another question :

      Is there anything you do to address fines in brewing?

      I find it as a bit of a challenge in Clever as my grind size is at the lower end of the espresso range. But, this is hardly an issue for me as it is a long steep; after that, I leave it on the cup to strain for a couple of more minutes.

      On the V60, I have never faced the fines as an issue as my sweet spot is often on top of the pour over range.

      In either case, I don’t get any silts. They are always clean and sweet.

      Please share your experience and guidance. Thx

      • MWJB replied to this.

        @MWJB

        Sorry, more questions than answers.

        Please tell us how do you use the V60 02 drip assist. I had a seen a video.

        I would use the inner circle for the first and the last pours and the circular pours the outer circle!

        InfamousTuba

        I haven’t seen any signs of higher, good tasting extractions. At the same brew ratio, pour rate & grind, the Tricolate was at the lower end of extraction. People are grinding finer & brewing with longer ratios, this is what extracts more.

        They’re also not filtering the readings (something you must do with very fine drip grinds), so they are artifically high.

        • LMSC replied to this.

            MWJB Tricolate was at the lower end of extraction

            Interesting mate! The JH video suggests >=21% extraction compared to The Next Level at 23%. Of course, he mentioned the cup lacked clarity.

            • MWJB replied to this.

                LMSC

                “Is there anything you do to address fines in brewing?” All grinders make fines at all settings, I don’t think about “fines” per se. Set your grinder so the brews extract to a good balance generally, if you get silty cups go a bit coarser and/or agitate less. Grinders are just adjustable in terms of burr gap, all you can do is make it larger, or smaller, you can’t specifically affect fines…even if you had some reason to think they were bad, or could come to some kind of consensus as to what constitutes fines. Focussing on fines is like trying to gauge the size of an elephant’s ears, by staring at its toe nail :-)

                    MWJB when you talk about lipids would this hold true for espresso and in turn would putting paper in the bottom of a basket then grounds result in a cleaner cup?

                    I used the ims e&b ultra fine baskets which has a fine mesh in them when 58mm and I kinda miss the clean mouth feel

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    • MWJB replied to this.

                        LMSC

                        “Interesting mate! The JH video suggests >=21% extraction compared to The Next Level at 23%. Of course, he mentioned the cup lacked clarity.”

                        21% might be normal for a Kenyan, Colombian, or Yemeni coffee, this is meaningless. I’ve had very tasty V60s at 23%… all at typical brew ratios (60-67g/L).

                        EY is a range, based around an average, You can dial in with a coffee sure, but it’s not a sniping tool.

                        V60 02 Drip assist: Still honing the technique, but here is where I am as of now:

                        Coarse grind, 94 on Niche (9% at 400 Kruve, 20% at 600um ASTM/ISO), 13.8g coffee, Pour 7 pulses of 30g, every 30s to 210g total, (each pour taking about 10s), First 3 pours in the centre, last 4 pours around the outer ring.

                        Medium drip grind 12% at 400 Kruve, 30% at 600um ASTM/ISO, 13.8g coffee, Pour 5 pulses of 40g every 40s, each pour taking~13s…still undecided over whether to pour 1 or 2 in the centre to start, remainder around the ring. Have also been pouring 40g in 30s, 2 inner, 3 outer pours. At this grind I have been using the Kalita 185, 5 pours of 40g every 40s (each~ 13s), 1 inner 4 outer.

                        Again, Drip Assist brews are a work in progress, so things may change.

                            Cuprajake

                            Espresso contains undissolved solids, including the lipids, sure grinding coarser and/or a paper filter in the basket may help. The more accentuated acidity you can get in espresso may prevent cups from being too dulled off (even with the lipid content) as they can be in brewed, or as an Americano.

                              MWJB Medium drip grind

                              Is this finer than the coarse grind (94 on Niche)? Are they brew specific?

                              For example, let’s say, coarse grind is always for V60; the medium drip grind is Kalita, Clever, etc.

                              Am sure, your choice of the number of pours have gone thru’ a rigorous testing, qualification of the extraction and taste.

                              I think the choice of different pours between the centre and the outer is based on the above, although I think there are no obvious fixed pattern to the choice. Every one of us will have to see what works the best for them.

                              Appreciate your patience and help in explaining / clarifying the doubts for us. As always, your experiments make our good cup of coffee drinking easier! 😊

                                  LMSC

                                  Yes the medium drip grind is finer than 9% 400 Kruve, 94 on a Niche (but not fine in terms of drip overall), the Niche is set at 94, my Feldgrind is set to 12% 400 Kruve, (or 3% more of the ground mass over 400 Kruve). I don’t adjust grind settings on a grinder unless I have a good reason. You can brew with any of the brewers with either grind, by adjusting the pour rate (faster pour rate/less pulses for finer grind).

                                  If you pour through the centre late in the brew you will get more agitation and likely more silt in the cup. I just use the centre to get the dose well wetted, then as many pours as possible in the outer ring.

                                  What I was trying to get accross is that, compared to any of my other recommended brew regimes (which are not experiments), the Drip Assist brews are still experimental and NOT rigorously tested.

                                  What works works, what doesn’t, doesn’t…I don’t see how someone can influence that if they follow the instructions, it’s just what happens when water is affected by gravity. If you need to pour at a different rate it is because you have a different brew weight, or grind setting (and there’s a fair range of grind settings that can produce a good cup).

                                  • LMSC replied to this.

                                      Thank you!

                                      MWJB If you pour through the centre late in the brew you will get more agitation and likely more silt in the cup. I just use the centre to get the dose well wetted, then as many pours as possible in the outer ring.

                                      Indeed. A bit of bitterness may also seep into the cup as the settled coffee beds get agitated. I knew this from brewing Indian filter; this brew method now gets 30s bloom and followed by one full pour at the desired ratio.

                                      On a normal V60 without drip assist, your method always has or had one or two centre pour(s) towards the end. How do you explain this, considering the above quote? 😊

                                      I have neither seen any silts nor bitterness into the cup when the last pour is thru’ the centre.

                                          LMSC I actually wet the bed, wait a little, then pour into the bowl of a spoon….this keeps all the coffee in the lower area and it remains mostly undisturbed and does not “climb the cone”.

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                                          • LMSC replied to this.

                                              DavecUK pour into the bowl of a spoon…

                                              Interesting approach Dave! Wouldn’t the water be sub-optimal in the process, impacting extraction?

                                              Of course, if the added water using this route is not significant, we won’t notice it.

                                                  LMSC Interesting approach Dave! Wouldn’t the water be sub-optimal in the process, impacting extraction?

                                                  Why?

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                                                  • LMSC replied to this.

                                                      LMSC

                                                      “On a normal V60 without drip assist, your method always has or had one or two centre pour(s) towards the end. How do you explain this, considering the above quote? 😊”

                                                      You can pour down the centre with a slower, more gentle pour with a kettle. Spiral pours are more agitating. I tend to pour in the centre whenever there is standing liquid over the bed, using a gooseneck.

                                                      With the Drip Assist the centre has bigger holes for a faster pour rate, the ring has a slower pour rate & the water drips very gently. So in both cases I’m aiming to reduce agitation as the brew progresses.

                                                        For those that don’t have 15 minutes of time to watch the complete version, this is an excellent summary. It covers all the main points really well.

                                                        I can’t watch this because he has a funny mustache. I also saw all I needed when I played with @MWJB Tricolate, a solution looking for a problem.

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