[Hi @"Rob1"#171 - I am copying your quote below to a new thread here, because I think it deserves its own place and didn't want to divert the "Lelit reliability" thread where I found it:] ***@"Rob1"#p19586 Ashbeck isn’t ideal… Better off just getting a zero water jug and remineralising with bicarb.*** When you say Ashbeck isn't ideal, what exactly do you mean (for espresso)? Is it because it will scale? Or because the coffee won't taste great? Or because it's bad for the environment? Or something else? I think that people are drawn to Ashbeck because it's an easy solution for their machines. Having to remineralise RO or Zero water is a barrier for some. We might do it in the future, but not ready to make the leap just yet. I am personally in that camp, so looking for an easy "ready made" solution that I don't have to think too much about. I understand Ashbeck is a compromise (what isn't?), but what I don't know is what sort of compromise it is. What I am interested to know isn't the chemical formulation that is beyond my understanding (too much X, not enough Y, low PH etc.), but rather the effect it has (e.g. - the machine will scale and might need descaling once a year; or - the coffee will taste X or will miss Y because the balance of mineral is too Z; or - the boiler might corrode, etc.). I Would really appreciate it if this is something you could explain for those of us who find the water issue too complicated and overwhelming. Finally, is there a better, easy, ready made compromise, that will not cost a fortune, doesn't take up counter space and electricity, will not involve remineralisation and will not kill a machine too quickly, providing we are willing to accept it's a compromise on taste? (I am asking a lot, I know, lol). If we do go for a Zero water jug + bicarb as you suggested above, what will be gained compared to Ashbeck (in terms of scaling and taste?). Sorry if this is asking too much and thank you for all the insights and for sharing your vast knowledge!

> @"Doram"#p19609 Having to remineralise RO or Zero water is a barrier for some. We might do it in the future, but not ready to make the leap just yet. Don’t let this be an issue. It’s a very simple thing to do, honestly. Takes seconds! > @"Doram"#p19609 If we do go for a Zero water jug + bicarb as you suggested above This is a question I’m asking myself. I’m very keen on the Skuma. It does RO water, remineralises on the fly with a concentrate you could even make yourself, dispenses hot water, the filter lasts 1 year, and is able to output in excess of 450L with moderate hard water (that’s less than 300ppm) going up to 700L with less hard water, at a cost of £35. Those are claims made in the Skuma thread. The price is also very competitive. As much as I’d like one, I’m somewhat skeptical as I haven’t seen anyone rather than Skuma themselves talk about the device. So, to me, it’s not yet proven or tested. But if it works as claimed on the long run, it’s really cost effective. Compare that to Zero water, where two cartridges cost approx. £15 each would produce approx. 60L of water and would need to be replaced once a month. I know someone here said they keep theirs for 3 months, against manufacturer recommendation and it’s been fine. It we know what the Zero water delivers as it’s been out there for a while.

I too find this topic a little overwhelming and would appreciate the pros and cons laid out in layman’s terms. I have been using a mix of 50:50 Ashbeck and Volvic and understand that I will need a light descale one every 1-2 years based on my usage. Ideally I would go the RO route like many of the experts on this forum seem to have and have been looking at both Skuma and Osmio Zero with interest but countertop space and initial outlay is a factor. The alternative I have been considering is the Zero water jug and remineralisation if that offers better protection for the coffee machine (less frequent descale) and better taste as compared to Ashbeck+Volvic. With each of these options and the benefits laid out would help someone like me pick what is right for them with the understanding of the consequences. Perhaps it is not as simple as that given the detailed discussions I have seen on the subject of water.

> @"Alpesh"#p19611 and better taste as compared to Ashbeck+Volvic. Same here. I’ve been using distilled water for over two years now, exclusively for coffee brewing. The process is inefficient, taking 6 hours to produce 3.5L of water and working out a similar cost to bottled Ashbeck, per litre. However, it doesn’t waste plastic nor water and you could argue it’s “green” providing your electricity comes from renewable sources. But I asked a question in the Skuma thread, asking whether distilled water tastes the same as pure RO water and the answer was No. now, let me tell you, distilled water tastes, errr…. Of nothing apparently, and what you taste is the actual taste of your mouth. Some say it tastes plasticky. It tastes diabolical in tea or in an Americano, making a very flat beverage. It seems so be OK for espresso. So I’m curious to try RO or Zero water, and, technically, on paper, the cost of running the Zero Water would be the same as the cost of running the distiller. I’ve been trying to convince the wife whether we could welcome the Skuma to our home. She said she likes the idea of having filtered hot water on demand, but unfortunately our counter space is at a premium. The plot thickens. On Ashbeck, I heard some say it can corrode the boiler on the wrong run. I never saw evidence of this. It also has a significant amount of chlorides which is not good in a service boiler environment, apparently.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p19620 counter space is at a premium Utility room?

@"LMSC"#p19621 our house has a utility room, but it’s a converted garage. Although it’s attached to the house, one needs to physically leave the house through the back door first. I don’t see the other members of the household doing that when the kitchen tap is more accessible.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p19622 That’s a shame! Are you not able to squeeze a small side table or install a small cabinet or an open shelf above the kitchen worktop to release some space? I am sure you would have done that, if possible.

> @"Doram"#p19609 When you say Ashbeck isn’t ideal, what exactly do you mean (for espresso)? Is it because it will scale? Or because the coffee won’t taste great? Or because it’s bad for the environment? Or something else? > > I think that people are drawn to Ashbeck because it’s an easy solution for their machines. Having to remineralise RO or Zero water is a barrier for some. Ashbeck is low in alkalinity and pH, it errs towards corrosive. I don't like the taste of coffee brewed with it, but others might. At the end of the day boiler water recommendations are not specifically focused on taste, you can still make bad cups with any water, you might even like the taste of less than ideal water. They're aimed at protecting your boilers. You could buy an RO system that produces water with higher alkalinity than Ashbeck, so the idea that you only have to remineralise RO, or Zero jug water is a fallacy. Ashbeck is easy, sure, but it's not a solution. The boiler recommendations are essentially very simple, aim for an alkalinity of 40-60mg/L as CaCO3 (Ashbeck is about 20mg/L). Bottled water options are Waitrose Essentials Lockhills, Speyside Glenlivet (not easy to find these days, though again I didn't like the taste)…Volvic & Acqua Panna are 2nd tier bottled water choices (high in alkalinity/bicarbonate). The first step to working out what you need to do is to check the in depth water analysis based on your postcode, with your water supplier, hardness will be easy to find, but you also want to know alkalinity/bicarbonate/temporary hardness (most critical).

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p19610 Zero water, where two cartridges cost approx. £15 each would produce approx. 60L of water and would need to be replaced once a month. I've been through all the Zero Water UK site, and I can't find a recommendation to change the filter once a month. There is this: [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/epAbBSF.png] whether that's credible is a different story, but mine has been running for six weeks and there is absolutely no smell or colour to the water/filter. The NSF certification gives 45 (US) gallons (i.e. 170 litres) as expected life of a filter element, but the certification is based on heavy metals and dissolved gases removal (which is likely to happen in the 'carbon' part of the filter), not softening/ion removal. Zero say that the ion-stripping resin is sufficient for 18,000 mg of ion removal, which would make that part of the filter last 170 litres with \~100 mg/l of ionic content (moderately soft water). My unfiltered supply is between 300 and 400 (Thames Water values), so I fully expect to replace the filter every 30-40 litres. At current rates of use, that means every 2-3 months (espresso and Turkish only; happy to continue with my inline filter and softener for other purposes - we don't drink much tea, either). My running cost is very low…and the cost per cartridge goes down even further if one buys packs of 4 - or 8. I'm posting this as a different use case - just saying that an RO system is not necessarily the cheapest for everyone.

> @"MWJB"#p19635 You could buy an RO system that produces water with higher alkalinity than Ashbeck, so the idea that you only have to remineralise RO, or Zero jug water is a fallacy. The Ozmio Zero’s alkalinity from its’ pure RO water in our case is typically around 15-20 mg/l. It has a remineralisation filter. The resulting alkalinity is typically around 40–50 mg/l. This is perfect for our boilers. The filter is changed once a year as the unit gets the softened water. The Ashbeck bicarbonate is 25 mg/l. I suppose one will have to prepare a concentrate or add 125 mg/l to a 5L bottle and use that? It is going to be hard weighing up 125 mg even with a jewellery scale ? https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/301227531 The Waitrose lockhills bicarbonate is about 60 mg/l.

Tesco Ashbeck water - why is it not ideal?

MWJB

Dusk I just wonder whether there is an easy way for idiots like me to know what water is best if I were looking at a couple of different bottles in a supermarket?

Look for water with a pH of 6.5 or higher and 50-75mg/l bicarbonate. There are only 2 or 3 options discussed above.

Be aware that bottled water is essentially just water in bottles, as with tap water, it is massively varied in make up and the vast majority of it is just as unsuitable for your boiler.

Doram

Rob1 , MWJB , CoyoteOldMan @Cuprajake @LMSC (hope I didn’t miss anyone) thank you very much for your replies, this is very helpful!

Reading all your replies I gather that I may be getting coffee which has a ‘drier’ sensation (I think I can relate to that sometimes in the coffee) and maybe a little acidity (normally I don’t have a problem of sourness, though if better water would make the coffee sweeter that would be very welcome indeed!)

I would like to try and make coffee with some proper water to see if I can taste the difference. Shame it’s not easy to just buy that in a bottle to have a taste. Maybe that can be a start-up idea for the likes of @OsmioWater and @SkumaWater to offer a 5 litre try-before-you-buy taster bottle that we can order before committing :).

I will probably give in and get something better in the future, but it’s difficult for me to make the move before I am convinced that I will be able to tell the difference. It would be tempting for me to have a solution that I don’t need to think too much about - not a multi stage operation on my part (so a machine that produces the pure water and does the re-mineralisation in one go, without need for me to intervene or make any decisions). Is it correct to assume Osmio Zero and Skuma can offer that?

MWJB I suggested you find out what water you receive at your tap. When we know this we can suggest a course of action

I think my tap water is not good - it scale terribly. I can see this in the kettle, on the stainless sink, in the shower… It might be ok to use a little of it to cut something else, but seeing how hard it is I am not keen to put it in the machine.

MWJB If you are using Ashbeck and you are happy with the taste, try adding sodium bicarbonate and see if you are still happy.

I will gladly try that. Is ‘sodium bicarbonate’ the simple product we buy in the supermarket as bicarbonate of soda? How much of it do I need to add to 5 litres? If I do add that to Ashbeck, will it make things worse for scaling?

Rob1 The TDS meter isn’t going to tell you if the water will scale or not - the Ashbeck won’t scale as in ordinary boiler temps and probably not even in the Elizabeth boiler that (IIRC) can run around 160c, so I don’t know why you think it might scale based on the TDS reading. Scaling is determined by the balance between carbonate alkalinity and temporary hardness at a given temperature.

Sorry, I didn’t use the right words. I didn’t mean to say Ashbeck will scale based on TDS readings - I wouldn’t have a clue. I read some mixed views about Ashbeck scaling or not. My own experience is only that I used Ashbeck and after a few months I took out the mushroom and saw some green marks on it (it’s a Mara X, so the boiler is HX). There was no significant build-up, just the green marks, and I have not had any scaling issues as far as I know (had the machine for nearly two years now). I think the green marks mean I had some scaling, but I don’t even know that for sure. I drain the water in the boiler and refresh with new water once every three weeks.

Rob1

Doram When you say Ashbeck isn’t ideal, what exactly do you mean (for espresso)? Is it because it will scale?

MWJB has already explained a number of things….People generally use and recommend Ashbeck on the basis that it “doesn’t scale”. So, additionally, I’ll say it will cause scale quite quickly in a service boiler unless you’re going to throw some away as a sacrifice every time you use steam (just to delay the process of draining the boiler completely) and the quite high presence of chlorides is something I’d avoid, especially in light of this. Ideally, chloride and sulphate will be within a certain ratio for taste (apparently) and there are additional corrosion concerns if they are present. I just avoid having either present in the water entirely…..though that’s going to be very difficult with any type of bottle or filtered tap water, so you’ll probably be pulling your hair out using anything other than distilled if you try to address this.

Doram Now to the more complicated issue of taste: Ashebeck is too low on alkalinity and pH. But how does that translate into taste in ways that I can understand, without going into numbers or being overwhelming? Can anyone, for example, share their experience of how espresso taste changed for them after moving from Ashbeck to, say, Osmio Zero?

Alkalinity is the buffer to acidity. So how it affects taste is coffee-dependent and your appreciation of it is subjective. Nobody can really say if you’ll like the taste of any given coffee brewed with water that’s quite low in alkalinity.

How this transaltes is increased risk of corrosion, and coffee that tastes more acidic - all other things being equal compared to higher alkalinity and pH.

Doram First, I think we need to separate ‘bad water’ into two things: scaling and taste. I think many of us know what scaling can cause - we have recently seen an example of that with an ECM machine (I think it was @CardinalBiggles ', but I can’t find the thread just now). I know my tap water is hard (~230 TDS on a simple electronic meter + info from supplier). Ashbeck is about 80 on my TDS meter, so although it might also scale - is a big improvement over my tap water in the scaling department.

The TDS meter isn’t going to tell you if the water will scale or not - the Ashbeck won’t scale as in ordinary boiler temps and probably not even in the Elizabeth boiler that (IIRC) can run around 160c, so I don’t know why you think it might scale based on the TDS reading. Scaling is determined by the balance between carbonate alkalinity and temporary hardness at a given temperature.

Dusk I just wonder whether there is an easy way for idiots like me to know what water is best if I were looking at a couple of different bottles in a supermarket?

Download my spreadsheet to your phone. As MWJB said above, the options are limited but I’ve seen some foreign labels posted so….

Look at the label and put the bicarbonate, magnesium and calcium values into the sheet.
Put your max operating temp in there (i.e max service boiler temp you use) and it’ll give you a “max hardness before scaling” calculation…
Compare this to the hardness automatically calculated from the calcium and magnesium entries and decide if you’re going to use the water or not.

You may decide to just put your brew boiler temp in and live with descaling the service boiler only….I’ll probably edit the sheet one day to make it a bit clearer.

Generally, avoid high chloride and sulphate values and aim for between 40-60mg/l alkalinity - you may prefer the higher end or lower end. Max hardness without scaling varies based on temp and alkalinity but look for less than 30mg/l (40mg/l might be ok). The issue is the labels don’t always give hardness and alkalinity as CaCO3 hence the need to calculate.

Dusk

I’m slightly less confused than I was, but still slightly confused.

I will assume that as I live in a hard water area (no I don’t know the exact water composition) that continuing to use Waitrose Lockhills will be fine. I can’t say I have thought to try different water from a taste perspective, I was more focused on stopping scale.

CoyoteOldMan

Doram 5 litre try-before-you-buy

Shipping water tends to be very expensive… If you are relatively local to me (South Oxfordshire/Berkshire/South Bucks), I’ll happily get you “samplers” of my recipes. Otherwise, the network of RO/DI dispensers that whinmoor85 has linked may be helpful (thank you Whinmoor85!); again, happy to post you 10 grams each of the salts I use.

Doram I think my tap water is not good

Also replying to Dusk : all water suppliers in the UK provide ‘local water quality reports’. Here is the link to Thames Water’s relevant page - it also has a link to find other suppliers https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help/water-quality/check-your-water-quality#/search

Doram Is ‘sodium bicarbonate’ the simple product we buy in the supermarket as bicarbonate of soda? How much of it do I need to add to 5 litres? If I do add that to Ashbeck, will it make things worse for scaling?

Same stuff, also called baking soda. Don’t mistake it with baking powder, as that contains other salts as well. @MWJB above was suggesting 40 mg/l. It will make things slightly worse for scaling, as there will be more potential for forming Ca or Mg carbonates (64 mg/l of CaCO₃ equivalent vs. the current 40 mg/l, if I got the calculations right), but not a huge amount of scale. The issue is going to be the concentration of salts (and scale) in the boilers if they aren’t emptied regularly.

Doram after a few months I took out the mushroom and saw some green marks

This could be a bit of chloride from the water forming copper chloride - or copper carbonate, which are both greenish and not well soluble in water.

MWJB

Doram I will gladly try that. Is ‘sodium bicarbonate’ the simple product we buy in the supermarket as bicarbonate of soda? How much of it do I need to add to 5 litres? If I do add that to Ashbeck, will it make things worse for scaling?

Yes, this is the stuff. Add 0.20g to 5l of Ashbeck (don’t use 0.1g scales, these won’t be nearly precise enough, use 0.01g scales. It will make the Ashbeck less corrosive. Note Rob1’s comments above re. Ashbeck scaling.

Rob1

Doram I would like to try and make coffee with some proper water to see if I can taste the difference. Shame it’s not easy to just buy that in a bottle to have a taste. Maybe that can be a start-up idea for the likes of @OsmioWater and @SkumaWater to offer a 5 litre try-before-you-buy taster bottle that we can order before committing :).

Might help them sell more units but they’d need to go through all the hoops of setting up a catering business re: food safety etc. They’d need to actually store the product as well. You can probably buy their concentrates and use a pipette to dose a sample of your own distilled or RO water though. The main cause of differences is going to be alkalinity which you can just modulate yourself with the ashbeck.

SkumaWater

Doram Doram sure I can send you a sample of our Coffee Balance water. Can you share with me your address by email at alex@skumawater.com ?

whinmoor85

If anyone is looking for cheap RO water, check if there’s a Spotless Water pump near you. I fill up a 5L jug for 20p and you can use it like a petrol station self use machine.

https://www.spotlesswater.co.uk/

DavecUK

whinmoor85
Just worth mentioning

It’s probably in quite a large storage tank prior to being pumped out and eventually that might get bacteria growing in it, simply due to it’s sheer volume, and you don’t know where the end of the filler has been!
Giphy - If You Say So Ok GIF by The Grinch

Doram

CoyoteOldMan Shipping water tends to be very expensive… If you are relatively local to me (South Oxfordshire/Berkshire/South Bucks), I’ll happily get you “samplers” of my recipes. Otherwise, the network of RO/DI dispensers that whinmoor85 has linked may be helpful (thank you Whinmoor85!); again, happy to post you 10 grams each of the salts I use.

Thank you, that’s very kind offers! I am in Cambridge, so not close (and also no station close to me to buy RO water). I think I will start by trying to add a little bicarb to Ashbeck and take if from there - it will be interesting to see if I can taste an improvement. I can always dip my toe in by getting a Zero jug of finding some RO water somewhere and give it a try. Who knows, I might end up with an Osmio or Skuma.

So what (and how much) would people reasonably add to 5 litres of pure water (from a Zero jug or RO, if they are the same thing)?

CoyoteOldMan Also replying to Dusk : all water suppliers in the UK provide ‘local water quality reports’.

This is my tap water report. When I say it’s “not good” I mean that I think it’s too hard for the machine. For everything else I think it’s fine: I drink it with no issue, it tastes fine to me. I can’t taste of smell any chlorine in it.

That’s not good for an espresso machine, is it?

CoyoteOldMan This could be a bit of chloride from the water forming copper chloride - or copper carbonate, which are both greenish and not well soluble in water.

Good to know!

LMSC

My summary :

I am a little OTT. I draw a cup after every steam. It might be enough to draw a cup of water may be once a week or twice a week.

I am using remineralised RO from Osmio Zero. Looks ok as my method works for me. This may not for every one especially, if feeding from water bottles.

If you are buying an expensive coffee machine, investing in something like RO , zero jug and mineralise it makes sense for some of us. The problem is drawing water after steaming at a chosen interval makes the bottled water not only expensive but also environmentally unfriendly.

MWJB

Doram

Your tap water is hard & high alkalinity, for drinking it is not ‘bad’ (if it doesn’t taste bad), lots of popular brands of bottled water are similar.

You keep talking about taste, you’re not treating the Ashbeck for taste if you are not having issues with taste.

You could start by mixing 600ml of Ashbeck to 100ml of tap.

Zero jug water is not the same as RO water. You need to add all the alkalinity to the Zero jug water, so 65-80mg/l of sodium bicarbonate (0.35g of sodium bicarb to 5 litres).

You would need to measure the alkalinity of the RO water before adding anything, because a lot of systems have remineralising cartridges (unless that specific RO system does not remineralise & was producing DI quality water at 000 to 003ppm TDS, in which case it would be the same as Zero jug water).

Surely there is a Waitrose in Cambridge? :-)

CoyoteOldMan

Doram I can always dip my toe in by getting a Zero jug of finding some RO water somewhere

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/272512807

Doram So what (and how much) would people reasonably add to 5 litres of pure water (from a Zero jug or RO, if they are the same thing)?

RPavlis: 50 - 100 mg/l NaHCO₃

plenty of other recipes (for example here are 5 - starting from concentrates for ease of use, but https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/diy-water-recipes-the-world-in-two-bottles/)

“My” MgSO₄ + KHCO₃ recipe adapted to baking soda: 148 mg/l Epsom salt + 67 mg/l baking soda (just about scalable to 5 litres without milligram scales and avoiding making concentrates - but if you are buying high resolution scales anyway, you may as well - erm… - splash out on something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08LKM5P8L)

Doram That’s not good for an espresso machine, is it?

Definitely not, unless you have a business in the repair and maintenance of said machines.

Inspector

I have been adding baking soda to Osmio zero water which brings it to 100ppm tds to feed my Elizabeth but recently I stopped doing it and feeding it straight from Osmio without baking soda. Coffee tastes better imo.

I would like to try potassium bicarb as I don’t also like the taste of sodium bicarbed water. It’s how to say, a bit salty :) Anyone using potassium bicarb with osmio water and if yes how many mg they are adding to a liter? And what’s final TDS reading?

Straight from Osmio my TDS reading is 22ppm. I didn’t invest to any KH/GH kit so I don’t know what my values are.

LMSC

Inspector baking soda to Osmio zero water

Are you then running the zero without the mineralisation cartridge?
It doesn’t leak, does it?
Have you tried with the mineralisation cartridge? That should be enough to get the alkalinity in the 40 mg/l to 50 mg/l.

The TDS metre is of no use. You need a drop kit. But, I doubt it will be significantly different to what I had reported in this thread.

MWJB

Inspector

You would only add sodium/potassium bicarbonate to bring your alkalinity into the 40-60mg/l range. TDS can’t tell you that, or how much to add.

DavecUK

Inspector I would like to try potassium bicarb as I don’t also like the taste of sodium bicarbed water. It’s how to say, a bit salty :) Anyone using potassium bicarb with osmio water and if yes how many mg they are adding to a liter? And what’s final TDS reading?

If it tastes salty, you are adding way too much sodium bicarb.

http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/ro-water-copper-corrosion

CoyoteOldMan

Inspector Anyone using potassium bicarb with osmio water and if yes how many mg they are adding to a liter?

I’m using it with a Zero water jug, but there shouldn’t be a material difference (unless people are remineralising the Osmio using the ‘fifth’ filter). 20 mg/l of KHCO₃ for every 10 points of KH. Happy to post you 10 grams for a test - I have bought a kg, which will probably be inherited down to the fifth generation…

Doram

Rob1 The main cause of differences is going to be alkalinity which you can just modulate yourself with the ashbeck.

MWJB You keep talking about taste, you’re not treating the Ashbeck for taste if you are not having issues with taste.

You could start by mixing 600ml of Ashbeck to 100ml of tap.

I would like to try water with an ideal composition so I can see if I can taste the difference (that’s the only way for me to know if I have “issues with taste”, I think. I enjoy my coffee as it is, but if I can make it even better - I am all for that).

If I understand what you say correctly, if I start with Ashbeck and get the alkalinity to 40-50 - that will be a big step in this direction, right?

So two options to get the alkalinity up is adding 0.2g of bicarb soda to 5 L of Ashbeck, or cutting 600ml of Ashbeck with 100ml of my tap water. I have a drop kit, so should be easy enough to do such an experiment.

MWJB Surely there is a Waitrose in Cambridge? :-)

Better than that - I have a couple of bottles of Lockhills in the garage if that’s what you mean. 😁 I bought it to cut the Ashbeck to add something to the pH and the minerals (didn’t know exactly what but understood it was good). However, I only add a drop of it (maybe 50-100 ml to a tank of around 2 litres, so it’s probably not doing anything meaningful. The reason I am afraid to use it is that after buying it I found the greed residue on the mushroom, so concluded I am getting scale. Lockhills has almost double the hardness of Ashbeck (from the label, maybe I am reading it wrong), so I leaned to use Ashbeck with just a tiny addition of Lockhills.

Inspector

I see. Thanks for the replies. I am running it with mineralisation cartridge. I was just following Dave’s recipe adding 0.08gr baking soda to liter previously. I might invest to a drop kit.

LMSC

Inspector 0.08gr baking soda to liter previously. I might invest to a drop kit.

Ok. My thinking is it is not required, if you are running the cartridge. Please do post what you find with and without the sodium bicarbonate.

Cuprajake

I’d be wart of the spotless water to, you don’t know the age of the filters. Etc

Cuprajake

It’s a topic that can bamboozle you, but imo water is just as important at the beans

LMSC

DavecUK He is adding on top of the remineralised water from Osmio zero. That’s why, I think, he feels salty.

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