Received a large order of coffee yesterday roasted on 27 June. Couple of bags were like balloons today - they didn't have one way valves. Tried one this morning through V60. Beans looked dark but not black. V60 was undrinkable - tasted burnt. Decided the best thing would be to cup all four beans. You don't hear much about cupping these days but it's a foolproof way to check as the tasting notes roasters put on the bags come via cupping. The bean I tried as V60 was the same via cupping. Another tasted ashy, dry and dark treacle - not pleasant. The other two beans had definable tasting notes. I've taken it up with the roaster and will await their response which I will share in due course.

https://imgur.com/a/RrSjeBO Cupping followed SCA guidelines - 8.25grms of coffee per 150grms of Volvic water at 92c. Coffee was left for four minutes then the crust was broken and scum removed before each cup was tasted several times. You should use a different spoon for each coffee to avoid contamination and/or dunk the spoon in a jug of water between each tasting. You should also attempt to get as much air in with the sip as you can to maximise the impact on your taste buds. You don't need any fancy equipment although it does help to have cupping cups that hold around 160-170gms. A temp probe like a Thermopen also helps to ensure the water is at the exact temp. So if you are struggling to get the tasting notes on the bean's bag, you might was to try cupping.

@"Systemic"#p20927 You will be on that special list starting with C

> @"DavecUK"#p20930 [Systemic](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/876/4) You will be on that special list starting with C What list??

> @"Systemic"#p20927 through their new roaster This sounds familiar. But, you only drink light roasts. In any case. my ![Giphy - Embarrassed Memory GIF by NOW WE'RE TALKING TV SERIES](https://media3.giphy.com/media/cMDv7sx5hIq18lna7o/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869f4rx7rirotjam1xyrw4fx0tuyrov78c74kjlbt58v&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g) 😂

Cupping

Dusk

Interesting, I’ll have to give it a try one day. Is there a rough grind size to be aiming for?

Systemic

Dusk Interesting, I’ll have to give it a try one day. Is there a rough grind size to be aiming for?

Not critical. I ground for Chemex on my EK which is probably between caster and granulated.

Systemic

As noted above, fed back my cupping notes with the roaster who got back to me very quickly with an apology and full refund. My order was one of the first through their new roaster and came out darker than expected. Should the beans have been sent out like that - obviously not.

Shows that it’s a good idea to cup your beans especially if you aren’t happy with them.

DavecUK

Systemic You will be on that special list starting with C

LMSC

Systemic through their new roaster

This sounds familiar. But, you only drink light roasts. In any case. my

Giphy - Embarrassed Memory GIF by NOW WE'RE TALKING TV SERIES

😂

Systemic

DavecUK Systemic You will be on that special list starting with C

What list??

Systemic

LMSC This sounds familiar. But, you only drink light roasts.

I do. Been chatting with the roaster and they’ve struggled with getting to grips with their new one. Roaster said mine were among the first through the new roaster and came out darker than they should. Also said they have struggled with adjusting to the new roaster’s profile, i.e. hitting the key roast temp points at the right time.

LMSC

Systemic Also said they have struggled with adjusting to the new roaster’s profile, i.e. hitting the key roast temp points at the right time.

I don’t know if this happens to everyone changing to a new roaster. The beans coming darker than the intended profile is expensive, especially under current economic strain!

DavecUK

LMSC It’s an easy thing to do when moving up to a larger roaster and “if” they are being a bit tentative about using the full batch size to start with…things go out of control very fast….as I found trying to roast 15Kg on a 25Kg roaster!

LMSC

DavecUK bit tentative about using the full batch size to start with

Do you think they might not have done full batch?

Roasting a full batch and ending up with an unsold stock vs a partial batch risking a refund is a trade off. They might have thought the costs of roasting a partial batch from refunds and new roaster discount will be lower than roasting a full capacity producing some unsold stocks!

They may have still offered a discount even if they had roasted the full load.

dutchy101

Those bags look very familiar. Mine look like balloons too. Roasted on 27th June you say? check.

I wasn’t planning to open the bags until 4th July, but looking at them, they might well open themselves soon!

DavecUK

LMSC You misunderstood me, the roaster manufacturers say from 7 to 15kg can be roasted, somewhere else min 500g. Good luck roasting 7Kg on a 15kg roaster, because it will really go. My suspicion is they tried smaller batches first to get used to it.

Just guessing tho.

MWJB

I can’t help thinking that cupping is one of the reasons filter roasting is in the poor state it is of recent months. Roasters slurping warm bowls of half brewed coffee and calling notes that are more likely artefacts of a malfunction.

There’s little evidence that the SCAA protocol was ever properly tested when it was established (about 100yrs after cupping was invented). If you’re going to cup & get realistic results you have to change a lot of the SCAA parameters, especiallly grind (it’s too coarse).

Cupping is the Polaroid instamatic, compared to the 35mm transparency film of drip brewing.

My last 5 bags of “filter roast” have been proper dark, roasty, some even coming accross as roasty as espresso (compared to Illy, which I drink frequently).

LMSC

MWJB cupping is one of the reasons filter roasting is in the poor state it is of recent months.

The challenge is how do we get a uni roast for different filter profiles and steep timings ? How would you address this?

MWJB calling notes that are more likely artefacts of a malfunction.

The bottom line is it is probably futile to chase / pick notes apart and instead focus on getting a well-roasted bag or get beans from those roasters who consistently deliver?

DavecUK I don’t think I misunderstood you. You were saying they tried partial (ie smaller) loads. In that process, they didn’t want to risk roasting a full capacity for financial reasons. They might have thought smaller batch would not only minimise any losses but also give them a chance to get used to the machine.

The buyers are their piggyback at a discounted price. Reasonable to me!

Systemic

MWJB Cupping is the Polaroid instamatic, compared to the 35mm transparency film of drip brewing.

Giphy - Season 4 Reaction GIF by The Office

PartySausage

Now you’ve got me worried. My order from said roaster is being delivered tomorrow

DavecUK

PartySausage I’m sure it will be fine, after the first few batches, you soon learn.

PartySausage

DavecUK I do hope so. Darker roasts really don’t float my cup.
I had a look at the website & only one of the two I ordered is still listed. Well actually they’ve got very little listed. I’m hoping this is because they’ve run out because of the demand given the good discount

PortafilterProcrastinator

@Systemic Thank you for this. Mine were roasted on 27 June and are balloons.

I’ll have to test this weekend.

DavecUK

LMSC it was a guess….I don’t think the new roaster and the discount are necessarily related.

MWJB

LMSC

LMSC The challenge is how do we get a uni roast for different filter profiles and steep timings ? How would you address this?

I’m not sure you need different steep times? Even if roasters/customers are cupping they are sticking to timings. There is an amount of time where steeps will hit a normal range of extraction & that’s it, there’s no hurrying it (some coffees might have something to offer at a shorter time, but aim for the lowest common denominator where you know the majority will be up to par).

You roast for flavour, if the coffee tastes good & clean (to you - not saying there is just one right way), it will be developed (flavour-wise) by virtue of that. In other words, (within the realms of filter coffee) coffee tends to extract consistently, If you roast darker, it just tastes like it was roasted past a point where you start to get flavours of burnt toast scrapings, these are just generic tastes and beyond the toasty taste of mass market Italian espresso (I drink a wide range of coffees & methods, so I’m being continually surprised at the roastiness of prized, distinctive coffees that are considered to be “special”).

LMSC The bottom line is it is probably futile to chase / pick notes apart and instead focus on getting a well-roasted bag or get beans from those roasters who consistently deliver?

If there is a roaster that constantly delivers, I have never had the privilege of finding them (I am very open to suggestions) - most do good most of the time, but everyone produces oddities occasionally. Quite a few roasters I have purchased from in the last decade have quite recently gone a lot darker, I’m just curious as to why. It seems a fairly recent trend (though some started down this path a couple of years, or more, ago).

I’m not so much talking about chasing notes, or nailing notes (“nice” trumps “correct” for me), I’m talking more about the notes being absent in a normal drip brew and over browning being less offensive & “tasting like coffee” when under extracted, like a safe bet - harder to screw up, but not ever able to hit the heights.

Seems odd given our recent discussions about grinders and clarity, if everything has to fight against roast artefacts (e.g when using 4 different grinders), how much do people care about clarity to start with?

LMSC

DavecUK new roaster and the discount are necessarily related

Why not? Of course, except one or two who may have chatted or communicated with them, most of the buyers may not know except the clue in the discount code itself. 😊