Received a large order of coffee yesterday roasted on 27 June. Couple of bags were like balloons today - they didn't have one way valves. Tried one this morning through V60. Beans looked dark but not black. V60 was undrinkable - tasted burnt. Decided the best thing would be to cup all four beans. You don't hear much about cupping these days but it's a foolproof way to check as the tasting notes roasters put on the bags come via cupping. The bean I tried as V60 was the same via cupping. Another tasted ashy, dry and dark treacle - not pleasant. The other two beans had definable tasting notes. I've taken it up with the roaster and will await their response which I will share in due course.

https://imgur.com/a/RrSjeBO Cupping followed SCA guidelines - 8.25grms of coffee per 150grms of Volvic water at 92c. Coffee was left for four minutes then the crust was broken and scum removed before each cup was tasted several times. You should use a different spoon for each coffee to avoid contamination and/or dunk the spoon in a jug of water between each tasting. You should also attempt to get as much air in with the sip as you can to maximise the impact on your taste buds. You don't need any fancy equipment although it does help to have cupping cups that hold around 160-170gms. A temp probe like a Thermopen also helps to ensure the water is at the exact temp. So if you are struggling to get the tasting notes on the bean's bag, you might was to try cupping.

Interesting, I'll have to give it a try one day. Is there a rough grind size to be aiming for?

As noted above, fed back my cupping notes with the roaster who got back to me very quickly with an apology and full refund. My order was one of the first through their new roaster and came out darker than expected. Should the beans have been sent out like that - obviously not. Shows that it's a good idea to cup your beans especially if you aren't happy with them.

> @"Dusk"#p20926 Interesting, I’ll have to give it a try one day. Is there a rough grind size to be aiming for? Not critical. I ground for Chemex on my EK which is probably between caster and granulated.

@"Systemic"#p20927 You will be on that special list starting with C

> @"DavecUK"#p20930 [Systemic](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/876/4) You will be on that special list starting with C What list??

> @"Systemic"#p20927 through their new roaster This sounds familiar. But, you only drink light roasts. In any case. my ![Giphy - Embarrassed Memory GIF by NOW WE'RE TALKING TV SERIES](https://media3.giphy.com/media/cMDv7sx5hIq18lna7o/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869f4rx7rirotjam1xyrw4fx0tuyrov78c74kjlbt58v&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g) 😂

> @"LMSC"#p20933 This sounds familiar. But, you only drink light roasts. I do. Been chatting with the roaster and they've struggled with getting to grips with their new one. Roaster said mine were among the first through the new roaster and came out darker than they should. Also said they have struggled with adjusting to the new roaster's profile, i.e. hitting the key roast temp points at the right time.

> @"Systemic"#p20934 Also said they have struggled with adjusting to the new roaster’s profile, i.e. hitting the key roast temp points at the right time. I don’t know if this happens to everyone changing to a new roaster. The beans coming darker than the intended profile is expensive, especially under current economic strain!

@"LMSC"#p20936 It's an easy thing to do when moving up to a larger roaster and "if" they are being a bit tentative about using the full batch size to start with…things go out of control very fast….as I found trying to roast 15Kg on a 25Kg roaster!

Cupping

Systemic

PortafilterProcrastinator I’ve just brewed my first v60 with the Kanya and it is roasty, none of the tasting notes. Surprisingly not harsh, but there is nothing but ‘roasted coffee’ there.

Same here - drinking it through gritted teeth until my next order arrives - the sooner the better. Leaves a bitter, acrid taste in mouth - not good.

PortafilterProcrastinator It is a tried and tested recipe/ method, but I will go again later.

Don’t think it will get any better - I’ve tried.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Systemic Agreed on things not changing, but I will feel better going back to them if I’ve brewed more than once.

Mine wasn’t quite as harsh as you’ve described. There isn’t the acrid mouth drying aftertaste I’ve had with other over-roasted beans.

LMSC

PortafilterProcrastinator They are a good roaster. As @Systemic said it can happen to anyone. I loved their Ana before they switched the roaster. Their Kisinga was decent and nothing exceptional.

Systemic

As I only drink lighter roasts exclusively for pour over and mainly for espresso, I am somewhat hyper-sensitised to roasty/bitter notes in my coffee. Drinking the above is a penance for me🤣

dutchy101

PortafilterProcrastinator Sorry if I missed it, but what was your roast date? Mine was 27 June.

Same mate - 27th June. I’d be surprised if it’s not the same batch. I used it for espresso for a latte as opposed to a V60. Didn’t really get any of the tasting notes, but was quite nice on my 2nd one yesterday.

dutchy101

So just had another latte - i quite like it. It’s nothing mind blowing but pleasant enough. Having just checked my email, I paid £32.83 for 2 kilos of coffee with postage after the 30% discount. At that price, I’m not sure I can grumble, although at full price I might be thinking a little differently.

It’s only a week past roast so may improve as it rests longer.

PortafilterProcrastinator

dutchy101 If you’re drinking espresso, I agree, more time should be good for it.

dutchy101

Yeah, I bought it for espresso based drinks - I can imagine it wouldn’t be much cop as brewed. Might try in the Aeropress at some point but I drink espresso based drinks 99% of the time

prezes

Tweaked Mbata today and very happy with the results. Espresso was well balanced and with milk really enjoyable

MWJB

prezes

prezes Espresso was well balanced and with milk really enjoyable

This almost makes me wish I could drink milk. :-)

LMSC

MWJB We know nothing wrong if people enjoy coffee with milk.

My wife can never have a black - either as an Americano or as a brew., however nice the cup is.

A contrast is my daughter loves a long black as long as it is not so fruity. She thinks the pour overs / brews always give her the best cup than an Americano; because, the scope for malfunction is greater in espresso than in brews, IMO.

I like Lattes but as you say milk can easily hide the brews / espressos malfunctions. I like a long black from brews or a short black from espresso and also straight espressos to enjoy the flavours a bag is expected to bring out. But, this isn’t for every one. 😊

prezes

LMSC I enjoy espresso or short americano from espresso with fruity notes most!

As for milk masking the flavours it is so true. We only drink piccolos as milky drinks

MWJB

LMSC I’m not saying I don’t like coffee with milk, nor that I have any thoughts as to whether anyone else can/should, I physically cannot tolerate milk. It would be nice for me to have the option.

LMSC

MWJB physically cannot tolerate milk. It would be nice for me to have the option.

You remind me of my daughter; she can’t have dairy milk. Non-dairy is her only option for an occasional lattes! I am ok with dairy. But, for lattes, it is always oat milk. I don’t like dairy milk for lattes.

Perhaps, non-dairy unless you are non-dairy intolerant as well?

MWJB

LMSC I tend not to put temptation in my path, as I don’t have the best self control, so best for me to get out of the habit altogether (it’s only really milk that’s the problem).

DavecUK

LMSC

DavecUK I always wondered why dairy chocolates suit some of those those who have serious stomach issues with dairy milk. Drinking dairy milk will trouble my daughter for days!

LMSC

MWJB ah-hah, that’s the problem. Though you are missing out something, I can liken it to chips, fries and so on. I avoid them as much as possible. 😊

Systemic

Ordered more beans after disaster with my last order - they arrived today - 1 kg Ethiopian natural and 1 kg Kenyan washed. Roast date 2 July so I am going to cup them tomorrow. Things are looking promising as the aroma coming from the one way valve is good. As I haven’t had a decent coffee, pour over or espresso for nigh on two weeks, I am going cold turkey.

Going to follow SCAA guidelines but increase the dose weight to 9 grms as opposed to 8.25 grms which translates to 16.666 ratio i.e. 30 grms of coffee to 500 grms of water.

Might dust off the refractometer and take some readings but they will be cheap and dirty. For accuracy, each sample taken should be run through a syringe filter to remove fines but I can’t be bothered. So, will pipette a few drops at set time intervals to see if the yield increases the longer the cups are left 4mins, 10mins and 15mins.

MWJB

Systemic

Systemic For accuracy, each sample taken should be run through a syringe filter to remove fines but I can’t be bothered. So, will pipette a few drops at set time intervals to see if the yield increases the longer the cups are left 4mins, 10mins and 15mins.

Well, it might be interesting as relative measurements, but I don’t see the point of a 4min measurement, cuppings aren’t tasted until 8-10minutes minimum. 10, 15, 20mins would be more relevant.

LMSC

Systemic - 1 kg Ethiopian natural and 1 kg Kenyan washed.

Looking forward to your cupping results! Btw, would you mind sharing who the roaster is please ? Thx

Systemic

MWJB Well, it might be interesting as relative measurements, but I don’t see the point of a 4min measurement, cuppings aren’t tasted until 8-10minutes minimum. 10, 15, 20mins would be more relevant

Sorry - meant that, i.e. 4 mins, 10 mins and 15 mins after the initial 4 min stand before breaking the crust.

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