I simply do not understand enough, to work out why a Cafetiere gives a different brew to a Clever to a V60 to a Boilbrew to the next dozen different ways of doing it. I have a system sitting in my cupboard that cost about £350 on Kickstarter (and I cannot even remember the name now!). I bunged them all into a box and stuck them into the loft! But, I want to either bring one down or buy one and stick with it. Why does the coffee taste so remarkably different from one to another and which is the one to stick with! Help.............

> @"dfk41"#p22699 Why does the coffee taste so remarkably different from one to another and which is the one to stick with! @"MWJB"#139 is your man. I only brew V60 and Clever; the latter is always a long steep. I don’t see any noticeable difference in taste between these two, keeping everything the same. Am I doing something wrong, if they should be different? 🤔

With any brewer, the coffee should be distinctive, recognisable as itself (if a little different to the same coffee from another brewer at a similar extraction). The differences are really a result of the level of filtration (silt in the cup) and the time it takes to brew (assuming you're not doing something wildly different with each brewer). Drip is fast (2.5 to 4min for a brew), immersion is slow (20-60min...as long as you can before it is too cool to enjoy), low extraction immersions are fast (1-3min) but use a lot of coffee for not much water and can be very pleasant (if on the simple side flavour-wise). How important is speed to you? If so, what is the longest you would wait for a brew? Do you need to make varying sizes of brew? How much input are you prepared to put into it? (Do you just want to dump all the water in as quick and unfussily as you can, or are you prepared to stand over it adding an ounce of water every 20 or 30 seconds). All brew methods require weighing grinds & water. What kettles do you have?

I've always assumed it's not so much the implement but more to do with grind, steep timing, water temp etc that reallY affects the taste. To me whether I use my clever dripper, V60, Aeropress, Moccapot etc if I'm not trying to make espresso, rather than try and discern if one is different (or better) from the other I just want to make a really nice drinkable cup of coffee. What I use to make it depends on my mood, time I have to make it or simply whatever takes my fancy on any given day. Can I say one is better and therefore which to use? No. My palet/taste buds are not good enough to differentiate between brew types. If you can taste a marked difference then go with the one YOU prefer. Surely no brew method is 'the right' one. it will be down to personal preference. Mind you. I know as much about the real art of coffee making as I do about most things…which is virtually nothing.

@"dfk41"#p22745 If I were you, I would get the Clever out. You can’t go wrong, with guidance from @"MWJB"#139. You will have to have to buy the SwissGold filter and need to be patient for 20 mins. :-)

@"MWJB"#p22747 It is a Niche of course.....I feel a trip into the loft!

If you could only have one

MWJB

dfk41 Kettles……one in the house, a long necked thing unbranded! I prefer not to let it steep too long simply because I am impatient! I just dug my Trinity One out (the expensive one) because I realised it was in a cupboard and not in the loft. You can use it a couple of ways, so I preheated, stuck in 17 gms coffee, let it steep for 4 minutes then opened the control valve and it decanted in about 5 seconds. Was this due to the 3 kg plunger…..not a chance! I had forgotten the reason I had not used it was an O ring had perished! I am drinking the silty brew it made, simply to remind me how much I hate brewed coffee (unless someone else makes it!)

Do you not have a normal kettle?

I can’t drink 4 minute steeps whoever makes them, unless very short brew ratio 1:6 or 7 & very low extraction (coarse grind). You can get a tasty brew in less if you go coarse/short enough.

What other brewer do you have to hand?

dfk41

MWJB I only have the one non electric kettle. If I want hot water for a drink I either use that or the Osmio (or sometimes the Evo). I have a cafetiere, a Clever, a Boilbrew from memory. Oh, an Ibrik as well

LMSC

dfk41 If I were you, I would get the Clever out. You can’t go wrong, with guidance from @MWJB. You will have to have to buy the SwissGold filter and need to be patient for 20 mins. :-)

MWJB

dfk41 Ibrik can be great but I prefer longer brews.

Out of those, I’d go with the Clever, the others will be silty with short brews.

What grinder?

dfk41

MWJB It is a Niche of course…..I feel a trip into the loft!

LMSC

dfk41 If you decide to go the Clever route, you need this

https://www.anothercoffee.co.uk/products/item110303.aspx

Expensive but worth every penny. Amazon may also sell it.

and this as well

dfk41

LMSC I am certain that the Clever I have, complete with Swiss Gold filter were gifted to me by @MWJB a couple of years ago. I have used it quite a bit as I find it almost as easy as the Cafetiere I have, so…..many thanks for everyone’s input!

MWJB

Clever brew today (just a paper filter):
23.8g ground 93 on Niche.
220g water weighed into gooseneck kettle.
At boil, get water in the brewer ASAP.
Start timer & add coffee on top of water, just a gentle prod here & there to get it all wet. No need to cover,
At 1:15 break crust, so nothing floating.
At 1:30 place on cup
Dry bed with this coffee (it will vary) 1:58.
167g of finished coffee.

Nothing to dislike, a pleasant enough cup, a little bland (7/9). Stronger end of brewed, but not in, say, moka pot territory I’ll go 30s longer for the break & drawdown next time (break 1:45, place on cup at 2;00).

MWJB

25g coffee, 230g water weighed into the kettle, 222g landed in brewer, then in with the coffee.
Break at1:45, place on cup at 2:00, dry bed at 2:29.
164g in the cup. (I was intending to get a bit more, but upping the dose and a little more water trapped in the kettle didn’t allow that).

A more intense flavourful cup, 8/9.

LMSC

MWJB A more intense flavourful cup, 8/9.

Great stuff! Clever I assume. 😊

MWJB

LMSC Sorry, yes, another Clever brew, still at 93 on Niche.

A much lower extraction than long steeps, simpler flavour but still tasty.

LMSC

MWJB A much lower extraction than long steeps, simpler flavour but still tasty.

Interesting brew! How would this compare to V60 in terms of extraction ?

MWJB

LMSC My drip brews (mostly V60) have been 19.5% to 22% with this coffee. The most recent Clever brew above was 12.5%. So about 60% of the solubles extracted compared to drip, into the cup…we could round up to ⅔?

Hence the shorter brew ratio.

LMSC

MWJB Hence the shorter brew ratio.

That’s 81.15% more coffee powder compared to the standard V60 dosage of 13.8g.

If we were to brew at a brew ratio of 65.5g/l at a grind size of 93 on Niche on Clever to break at 1:45 and the cup at 2:00, would the soluble still be 2/3rd?

Thanks!

MWJB

LMSC It’s closer to 70% more coffee when considering the same amount of brew water (I was anticipating more like 225-230g in the brewer), but yes, the target is to extract ⅔ as much compared to my regular V60.

In order for it not to be too weak to enjoy (about 1.00% TDS in your scenario), you need to use more coffee in the dose.

MWJB

3rd Clever brew. Niche 93, 24g coffee, 229g water in kettle, 227g in brewer, add coffee & wet, steep until 1:30 sink crust, place on cup at 1:45. Dry bed 2:12.

Another good cup, hard to say but feels a bit cleaner, less chewy than 25g brew earlier, another 8/9.