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Not sure of the exact dates but post Christmas I believe.
Eureka Single dose, Niche, Solo
BlackCatCoffee That would be nice. It will be interesting to see their burr size; I wonder if they would keep it similar or go up to 83mm.
In fact, I asked them, before Christmas, if there would be a Niche II with a flat burr. I did tell them I am in the market for a SD electric. I wasn’t expecting a reply. They didn’t! 😊
BlackCatCoffee but post Christmas I believe.
Understood. The video was published on the 28th of January 2022 - that’s post Christmas. Is your understanding the guy on that video is using an older model? If so, how can you tell? For me at least, as a only espresso drinker, I’d like to understand which improvements have been made since the first run. In all honesty, as much as the Niche is great, I’ve been going on about flat burr grinders for a while, and I’m thinking of upgrading - but it needs to be right.
I will see if I can get a change log and serial numbers from the distributor so we can tell but had a check on some email updates I got on the production delays and they stated the second run was delayed to mid to end Jan. We literally got stock from that run on Tuesday so he is almost certainly on a first run machine. I think he says in the video something about a first model although he could be referring to it being a Mk1 as opposed to a launch model as such.
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My own thought process did include a two-grinder setup. I thought about it quite hard. A large part of it was that the Mignon was showing on a supplier’s site as being in stock. It wasn’t.
But, the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that for the amount of time I want to switch between espresso and, say, V60 or Clever, the Niche was a workable option. The Mignon? A bit of a PITA to do, so as a two-unit setup, maybe. As a dual-purpose but single-grinder setup, I prefer the Niche.
Am I bothered about flat v conical? Not enough to buy both.
Appearance? Subjective, but I prefer the Niche. To me, it looks like it was designed with some flair. The Mignon looks like someone hacked other CAD files to stick it on an angle, and added wood bits and feet because, hey, it worked for Niche. It looks to me a bit like wearing a knock-off Rolex or a local market ‘designer’ suit. I’d have had more respect for it if it wasn’t a wanna-be style.
All told, by the time the Migngn SD was actually available, I already had the Niche, had decided I wasn’t buying both, and don’t regret it. If I was buying now, the only thing I think would sway me to the Mignon was avoiding the delay getting the Niche. And I doubt it would be enough to swing it for me.
A flat-burr Niche? Well, if it ever happens, and at a sensible price, I’ll think about that, then. I’m not holding my breath, though. While they’re selling the current one faster than they can make them, I don’t see it happening as they would too much be competing with their own primary product. A lot depends on how much, if any, they want to grow the company. Do they want to try to be a big player, or just to be a very successful big fish in a specific pond? The effort, and especially capital demands, of scaling up to the level to be a much bigger fish means running a very different kind of company, and a very different set of risks. I don’t know the people involved, but it looks to me like they’re smart enough to not to too ambitious. Clever move, guys.
I have a wilfa svart for pour over. Happy enough with that, i have espresso burrs in my major, if ssp did brew specific for the major id of happily spent another 250 on a second major, and get those. Sadly ssp seem to have focused on 64mm for three different burr types.
The mignons that ive had have all been tbe £350 or less, 50 and 55mm versions and they have been ok. I really disliked my eureka 65mm, wasnt a good grinder. As for the sd mignon it looks like they have tried to make do rather than re invent, there not the best for switching between espresso and brew either.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
6 days later
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Interesting and honest review of the new Webey Key - I know it’s been discussed a lot here but it’s really surprising to me how good the Niche appears for the money and how much companies are struggling to equal it. I know all tech is diminishing returns at a certain point but this grinder is way more expensive.
Don’t know if it will ever be mainstream enough to be classified a design classic but the Niche is certainly beginning to look like one to me.
Funnily enough, I watched this last night. The Niche always tends to be the benchmark whenever grinders are being compared, which I suppose is testament to how well regarded it is.
dutchy101 The Niche always tends to be the benchmark whenever grinders are being compared, which I suppose is testament to how well regarded it is.
I think that is also interesting, the comparisons of grinders 3 or 4 times the price. ……what the Niche has done is made single dosing, easy grind adjustment in a compact kitchen friendly form, accessible. This never used to be the case and at its price point, it’s very difficult to better. A big reason for their success.
LMSC In a way they have, but the manufacturers have been very, very lazy when it comes to prosumer grinders. Only now are they waking up to the fact that there is a huge market out there (for the right grinders)…much larger and potentially more lucrative for them, than the one for commercial grinders.
I remember many years ago Ceado expressing complete surprise (actually didn’t believe me) that any prosumer/home user would ever buy an E37S……ridiculous really. 🤣 So they didn’t even promote it to prosumers.
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DavecUK - I don’t know when you told them that, but there are a few prosumer users who actually have E37S grinders in their homes. I know a few of them, some in this forum, actually. In fact, it’s one of the “friendliest” for the home in terms of overall size given the size of the burrs. I always wanted one, but it was very expensive. But then, the Niche came… and the rest is history.
To be clear: at the time, due to the lack of option in the home market, prosumer users had no choice and had to resort to commercial grinders to use at home if they wanted anything other than a Mignon, Ascaso Mini or Vario.
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What I do not understand is why a company like Mignon wouldn’t bother creating something from scratch. A short cut is never going to work. It’s just not sustainable.
I hope Niche upgrades the Burrs and design in the conical space and also bring their flat version. I would love to see them cleaning out this market by keep raising the bar even higher leaving every one far behind.
LMSC - Very good point, which I keep asking myself the same questions. Any of those traditional brands could smash Niche if they wanted to. But in my opinion, they failed, miserably by trying to adapt their designs rather than think it through from the ground up and from a prosumer perspective using their kit in a home environment.
Surely 2 future Niches, one with 83mm flat burr and one with 83mm conical burr, sub-£1000 would just own the sub 3K market?
-Mac for sure! What I was trying to say is the traditional brands rather than Niche (who?) had the opportunity to smash it - but failed miserably. Now Niche has established itself as a trusty brand for the home market with excellent customer services, there’s no reason for consumers to look anywhere else for products at that price range. They got it right.
I am not sure it is that simple. I do not think it is just a case of other manufacturers recycling designs out of laziness and Niche nailing it off the bat.
I am no engineer but I suspect that making a good zero retention conical burr grinder at a competitive price point is inherently easier than building a flat burr grinder with the same characteristics. Due to the way that coffee channels through conical burrs you have gravity on your side and I suspect less surface area for coffee to hide in the grind chamber, not to mention you can use a significantly lower wattage (and cheaper) motor that also means (all things being equal) less noise and less vibrations to control.
I would be very surprised if Niche is not working on something exciting but are they going to solve all the difficulties that come with a flat burrs set when the might of companies like Eureka and Ceado are yet to totally nail it? Tough to say.
BlackCatCoffee all the difficulties that come with a flat burrs set when the might of companies like Eureka and Ceado are yet to totally nail it? Tough to say.
That’s a fair point, it might be why the companies making flat burr grinders are struggling….
DavecUK Perhaps it highlights the fact, that the big traditional companies do not really understand the issues and will simply wait and see if someone else can nail it then try and copy
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BlackCatCoffee Fair!
I totally understand what you are saying. You know about coffee and equipments more than I would ever know.
We are not saying “lazy” but I am still surprised that biggies like Mignon took a short cut than designing from scratch. Yes, it is lovely, sturdy and makes a great espresso. But, …
I own and develop products in technology space. It’s not a joke to design something from scratch as I understand what it takes to bring a successful product.
It’s possible Mignon knew how it will be received and sold; perhaps it is a teaser, which I really hope it is. I am sure, Niche is working on their flat grinder and it may not completely solve what the ever ails the flat burr segment. But, I doubt if they will release something that they don’t like!
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Btw, thx for sending CP and the half decaf orders to the girls. They fell in love with your CP; they can’t wait to open the half decaf. I plan to send them a couple of more tasters from you. I will then let them decide what they want as a subscription from you guys. Thx