I understand the arguments regarding patreon support but I’ve never seen anyone other than Hoffman using Patreon’s money to buy ‘stuff’ he then comments on and then gives whatever he has bought using thier money, back to the Patreons. Because of that I don’t feel he has the sort of bias others may have… unless of course you know different.
Eureka Single dose, Niche, Solo
Full disclaimer as I am one of Hoffmann’s Patreons but my take on the whole thing and reason for being one is as @Frothbewithyou suggests, it’s a way to contribute directly to the content producer that you don’t get by purchasing something from a link that he will get a kick back from.
Hoffmann has put so much knowledge out into the world, for free, and my coffee and enjoyment of it is so much better for it. Not necessarily just his product reviews but the countless hours of technique and knowledge he supplies. My small contribution to say thanks for that and hope he continues doing so is to give him less than the price of a bag of beans each month.
- Edited
Mark-drinks-coffee Hoffmann has put so much knowledge out into the world, for free, and my coffee and enjoyment of it is so much better for it. Not necessarily just his product reviews but the countless hours of technique and knowledge he supplies. My small contribution to say thanks for that and hope he continues doing so is to give him less than the price of a bag of beans each month.
I would make the point (as I do like a balanced discussion) that although the information is for free….The YouTube channel makes money in a number of ways, with Patron, merch links, and publicity, revenues as additional streams to the advert revenue.
https://www.networthspot.com/james-hoffmann/net-worth/
https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCMb0O2CdPBNi-QqPk5T3gsQ
Now being very balanced and fair….it’s quite possible he donates all the money he makes to charity, makes no money from it and is giving his time for free….which would be admirable.
If in fact he makes a very good living from it, and it helps his other businesses, I have no problem with that, and good luck to him. However, on some forums, a few people (compared his financing to me in a negative sense), which is why I remember it. A view was expressed that he does it all for nothing …It may, or may not, be true if he gives it all to charity and his Patreons.
- Edited
Hmm 🤔 yeah ok, I see what you mean about the perception of “he does it all for free”.
Perhaps a better way for me to explain how I see it is the exchange of value. He provides a service that I feel is of value and the value I exchange for that is being a patron (as well as giving my attention/ ‘clicks’). I also have no expectation that he doesn’t profit from that exchange either and have no issue with him doing so.
Other people value his service as being worth their attention/ ‘clicks’ (whether they ever realise they are giving away value in that exchange is a different matter!) while others still see no value in the service and therefore give nothing away by not engaging in the content.
In much the same way I am a member of various groups on Facebook (none as great as this forum obviously!) and am aware that in exchange for the value that I get from that group, I give FB my attention/ engagement which they use to sell advertising and slowly (or not so slowly) corrupt the world.
Which makes this place so refreshing, I gain a huge value from being a member here but don’t feel I give any exchange of value that would be monetised. Instead I give some engagement and the occasional, long winded, ill structured rambling!
- Edited
Mark-drinks-coffee Which makes this place so refreshing, I gain a huge value from being a member here but don’t feel I give any exchange of value that would be monetised. Instead I give some engagement and the occasional, long winded, ill structured rambling!
As we all do without the constraints, or burdens of being commercial. this allows us to ramble and express a view, without upsetting members considered more important because they advertise. The great thing for me is I don’t have to worry about SEO, rankings or anything else.
I had advertisers on the other forum ask me more than once to remove something they didn’t like….one actually responded to someone playing games who wasn’t even a member of the forum. Another company being complained about put pressure on me to remove negative comments, because they were considering advertising. I had enough of that BS.
All the begging I had to do to get the owner to implement the slightest flipping improvement or useful facility for members. Only being able to get any attention on the forum every 4-6 months. Advertising rates that were far too high, which I kept having to do deals on so advertisers got the correct value for the business benefits.
I was about to walk anyway….even if it hadn’t sold, because I was fed up with it all. VS was just the final nail in the coffin for me and the other mods. It’s not hard to run a forum if you are interested coffee and community and not profit. it doesn’t need lots of money, in fact we have donated to Freeflarum more than 3 years worth of paid hosting if we had gone elsewhere….but the point is we are supporting something good.
Whether we are successful, is down to whether this is what the members want, rather than a perhaps slicker, but commercial forum, where the membership is monetised, or “used” in some way.
I like watching some of Hoffmans stuff, but I watch it all with my eyes open, as we should with everything on the internet.
Theres some bargin mazzer majors on ebay atm.
£280 for one with ti coated burrs.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
I think, personally, that the “Does James Hoffmann make money from YT” is so, soooo complicated.
Indirectly, he’s certainly made some from me. Not much, but some, For a start, I bought his book. I find it very interesting, and I got a book I like and the pleasure of rummaging in it and he got a few quid. I’ve also bought other stuff (beans, a Clever Dripper etc) from Square Mile and, but or the YT stuff, I may never have even noticed Square Mile. So, at least indirectly, has made a tiny bit from me, and I sure don’t begrudg it - I’ve watched a lot of his content.
I’ve also priced up some of the equipment he uses to make videos, and there’s a LOT of money gone into that. There’s also the amount of time either he, or someone he has to pay, has to spend in post-production. But …. oes all that time and expense on equipment only get used for YT stuff? Or does it get used directly for other business uses? I don’t know, though I’d guess there’s other business uses too, and the exact proportion would impact heavily on how much he “makes” from YT stuff.
Finally, there’s the “opportunity cost” to his time on YT. He runs (co-owns, I believe) a decently successful business and as any business owner knows, doing x hours on a non-profitable project means that those x hours either have to come from not spending them on the business (which would in all likelihood be a much more profitable way to spend his time) or, it comes out of his leisure time which is something most business owners don’t get that much of, so value highly.
I don’t believe anyone can be sure if he genuinely makes money from YT, even indirectly, without having access toa lot of information that just isn’t in the public domain but, especially if you include the opportunity cost of the time he spends when he could be spending it on his main business, I very strongly doubt making money from YT is on his radar.
But if he does make something from it …. good. I get value from watching it so I sure don’tcare if he makes a bit by making it.
My ONLY consern with anybody making YT content, to be honest, is whether I think the revenue they make, or the free goods some get, are sufficient to skew whether or not the views they provide are sincere, and of course,whether they are competent in the first place? If they are, good luck to them.
One thing I do like about his content is that he is usually very careful to point it out when he is making a point he considers to be very subjective, like what suits his personal tastes or preferences, which of course may not be those of the viewer. That might be whetherhe likesark, mdium or light roast, or whether he likes the UI or workflow of a grnder, etc. I have a lot of time for his stuff, both for the educational aspects on coffee, but also for the entertainment. For me, it’s a distinct two-fer. But, for others …. YMMV.
16 days later
Just some quick thoughts on the Mignon SD now we have production models in stock.
If you are deciding between the Niche and the SD the answer could well be a very simple one - if you want one grinder to do it all then you should still buy the Niche.
If on the other hand you are happy with a multi grinder set up or you only ever drink espresso then the choice is probably a little more tricky. My experience with Niche is not extensive and there is already so much info out there I do not think I can add anything useful to it so I am just going to give you some pro and cons of the SD.
Pros
- Excellent clarity in cup
- Large flat burrs
- Speedy grinding
- Very robust
- Italian made
- Opportunity to use third party burrs
- Widely available
Cons
- Ease of changing between brew methods
- Slightly louder than other grinders in Mignon range
- Portafilter holder and button holes left over from other Mignon grinders
- Bellows design less than ideal
All in all if you can live with its little quirks and you want the best possible in cup for espresso at this price point I would say that the Mignon SD is worthy of very serious consideration. For me the quality of shots produced is on par with the likes of the Mythos and Helios grinders I had on the bench at the time of testing.
I have read some reports of motor vibration and slightly shonky finish on some parts from people that had the very first production run (these have all been sold through now I believe and we have the ‘tweaked’ models in stock) but personally the only gripe I have found on models I unboxed have been feet stuck on wonky. Annoying but not the end of the world.
I am very happy to have these in stock and I am sure they will become very popular indeed.
It has displaced the grinder in my kitchen and at the end of the day that is the best recommendation I can give.
Any questions please fire away.
David
Interesting comparison @BlackCatCoffee, and, I am in the exact market you describe: espresso only.
Yet, as I was googling to find things out, it seems that the Solo seems to be a far better product than the Mignon SD, allowing aftermarket burrs, and not much of an afterthought design if compared to the Mignon. Some say the Solo gives a much more flavoursome cup too. Have you had the opportunity to compare those two? Would be interesting to know if you have and know your thoughts.
MediumRoastSteam Didn’t people have problems with Solo — at least with earlier version — re-clumps, medium dark / dark / oily beans? I am not sure if they fixed these.
LMSC I am not sure if they fixed these.
I think they have to an extent. And there are hacks out there to sort it out. Didn’t people have problems with the Mignon SD? 😉
MediumRoastSteam Oh yeah! 😊
Both are out of contention for me.
I was discussing this with Dave in the General Solo thread yesterday. I have an original 1st release and the clumper works fine. You need to give it a clean every couple of months, but that’s probably the case for most grinders.
That said, I don’t use dark oily beans
I’ve only used a Solo for a few shots and I suspect there would be relatively little to choose between the SD and Solo in terms of in cup performance. That said, although the design of SD is not perfect, some of the decisions the manufacturer has made with the Solo would make it a total non starter for me. Beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder though.
I haven’t seen an actual hands on for the Solo vs SD yet, do you have any links?
David
- Edited
Out of the three of them I’d say the SD is the nicest looking grinder. I prefer the look of the Solo to the Niche, which was a big factor in my decision to go for it over the Niche when I ordered it.
I also love the look of the Minima - as you say David, it’s in the eye of the beholder, lol.
Good to see you on here bud. Thanks again for arranging my Minima - I’m absolutely loving it.
This is the one I saw last (there are others):
Just Google “eureka Oro vs df64” (rather than Solo)
Ahh I am forgetting it has a different name in different markets.
I would point out a couple of things though, given when the video was made he has one of the first run and things have been tweaked a touch since then and secondly the poor folks in the US seem to get diddled a bit when it comes to price of Eureka grinders. The Mignon SD retails at pretty much double the price of the Solo and as such I think it is a very different proposition indeed.
I would seriously consider a flat burr alternative to the Niche however I don’t think there is a suitable option yet which can match its ease of use and workflow.
The Solo is an interesting prospect but not quite there in my opinion. They apparently improved the clump crusher since the first generation however there is still an issue with some grinds retaining and regrinding in the burrs. With a few mods it’s a decent if unrefined alternative.
The Mignon Oro SD reminds me of @DavecUK Evo Leva - bit of a Frankenstein 😄 Clearly Eureka are trying to carve out a share in the single dose market by cobbling something together without too much investment.
Like with many first generation products I’m sure they will make improvements with subsequent iterations but it’s a shame they didn’t choose to innovate out of the gate.
Will be interesting to see what other single dose flat burr alternatives enter the market…I’ll stick with my Niche for now.
BlackCatCoffee given when the video was made he has one of the first run and things have been tweaked a touch
Out of curiosity, when was the second run made? Was it really recent?
Niche will obviously be aware of what is going on in the market and what people think (rightly or wrongly) about conical vs flat burrs. I would be very surprised indeed if we do not see a flat burr Niche in the not too distant.
David
- Edited
Not sure of the exact dates but post Christmas I believe.
BlackCatCoffee That would be nice. It will be interesting to see their burr size; I wonder if they would keep it similar or go up to 83mm.
In fact, I asked them, before Christmas, if there would be a Niche II with a flat burr. I did tell them I am in the market for a SD electric. I wasn’t expecting a reply. They didn’t! 😊
BlackCatCoffee but post Christmas I believe.
Understood. The video was published on the 28th of January 2022 - that’s post Christmas. Is your understanding the guy on that video is using an older model? If so, how can you tell? For me at least, as a only espresso drinker, I’d like to understand which improvements have been made since the first run. In all honesty, as much as the Niche is great, I’ve been going on about flat burr grinders for a while, and I’m thinking of upgrading - but it needs to be right.
I will see if I can get a change log and serial numbers from the distributor so we can tell but had a check on some email updates I got on the production delays and they stated the second run was delayed to mid to end Jan. We literally got stock from that run on Tuesday so he is almost certainly on a first run machine. I think he says in the video something about a first model although he could be referring to it being a Mk1 as opposed to a launch model as such.
- Edited
My own thought process did include a two-grinder setup. I thought about it quite hard. A large part of it was that the Mignon was showing on a supplier’s site as being in stock. It wasn’t.
But, the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that for the amount of time I want to switch between espresso and, say, V60 or Clever, the Niche was a workable option. The Mignon? A bit of a PITA to do, so as a two-unit setup, maybe. As a dual-purpose but single-grinder setup, I prefer the Niche.
Am I bothered about flat v conical? Not enough to buy both.
Appearance? Subjective, but I prefer the Niche. To me, it looks like it was designed with some flair. The Mignon looks like someone hacked other CAD files to stick it on an angle, and added wood bits and feet because, hey, it worked for Niche. It looks to me a bit like wearing a knock-off Rolex or a local market ‘designer’ suit. I’d have had more respect for it if it wasn’t a wanna-be style.
All told, by the time the Migngn SD was actually available, I already had the Niche, had decided I wasn’t buying both, and don’t regret it. If I was buying now, the only thing I think would sway me to the Mignon was avoiding the delay getting the Niche. And I doubt it would be enough to swing it for me.
A flat-burr Niche? Well, if it ever happens, and at a sensible price, I’ll think about that, then. I’m not holding my breath, though. While they’re selling the current one faster than they can make them, I don’t see it happening as they would too much be competing with their own primary product. A lot depends on how much, if any, they want to grow the company. Do they want to try to be a big player, or just to be a very successful big fish in a specific pond? The effort, and especially capital demands, of scaling up to the level to be a much bigger fish means running a very different kind of company, and a very different set of risks. I don’t know the people involved, but it looks to me like they’re smart enough to not to too ambitious. Clever move, guys.
I have a wilfa svart for pour over. Happy enough with that, i have espresso burrs in my major, if ssp did brew specific for the major id of happily spent another 250 on a second major, and get those. Sadly ssp seem to have focused on 64mm for three different burr types.
The mignons that ive had have all been tbe £350 or less, 50 and 55mm versions and they have been ok. I really disliked my eureka 65mm, wasnt a good grinder. As for the sd mignon it looks like they have tried to make do rather than re invent, there not the best for switching between espresso and brew either.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
6 days later
- Edited
Interesting and honest review of the new Webey Key - I know it’s been discussed a lot here but it’s really surprising to me how good the Niche appears for the money and how much companies are struggling to equal it. I know all tech is diminishing returns at a certain point but this grinder is way more expensive.
Don’t know if it will ever be mainstream enough to be classified a design classic but the Niche is certainly beginning to look like one to me.
Funnily enough, I watched this last night. The Niche always tends to be the benchmark whenever grinders are being compared, which I suppose is testament to how well regarded it is.
dutchy101 The Niche always tends to be the benchmark whenever grinders are being compared, which I suppose is testament to how well regarded it is.
I think that is also interesting, the comparisons of grinders 3 or 4 times the price. ……what the Niche has done is made single dosing, easy grind adjustment in a compact kitchen friendly form, accessible. This never used to be the case and at its price point, it’s very difficult to better. A big reason for their success.
LMSC In a way they have, but the manufacturers have been very, very lazy when it comes to prosumer grinders. Only now are they waking up to the fact that there is a huge market out there (for the right grinders)…much larger and potentially more lucrative for them, than the one for commercial grinders.
I remember many years ago Ceado expressing complete surprise (actually didn’t believe me) that any prosumer/home user would ever buy an E37S……ridiculous really. 🤣 So they didn’t even promote it to prosumers.
- Edited
DavecUK - I don’t know when you told them that, but there are a few prosumer users who actually have E37S grinders in their homes. I know a few of them, some in this forum, actually. In fact, it’s one of the “friendliest” for the home in terms of overall size given the size of the burrs. I always wanted one, but it was very expensive. But then, the Niche came… and the rest is history.
To be clear: at the time, due to the lack of option in the home market, prosumer users had no choice and had to resort to commercial grinders to use at home if they wanted anything other than a Mignon, Ascaso Mini or Vario.
- Edited
What I do not understand is why a company like Mignon wouldn’t bother creating something from scratch. A short cut is never going to work. It’s just not sustainable.
I hope Niche upgrades the Burrs and design in the conical space and also bring their flat version. I would love to see them cleaning out this market by keep raising the bar even higher leaving every one far behind.
LMSC - Very good point, which I keep asking myself the same questions. Any of those traditional brands could smash Niche if they wanted to. But in my opinion, they failed, miserably by trying to adapt their designs rather than think it through from the ground up and from a prosumer perspective using their kit in a home environment.
Surely 2 future Niches, one with 83mm flat burr and one with 83mm conical burr, sub-£1000 would just own the sub 3K market?
-Mac for sure! What I was trying to say is the traditional brands rather than Niche (who?) had the opportunity to smash it - but failed miserably. Now Niche has established itself as a trusty brand for the home market with excellent customer services, there’s no reason for consumers to look anywhere else for products at that price range. They got it right.
I am not sure it is that simple. I do not think it is just a case of other manufacturers recycling designs out of laziness and Niche nailing it off the bat.
I am no engineer but I suspect that making a good zero retention conical burr grinder at a competitive price point is inherently easier than building a flat burr grinder with the same characteristics. Due to the way that coffee channels through conical burrs you have gravity on your side and I suspect less surface area for coffee to hide in the grind chamber, not to mention you can use a significantly lower wattage (and cheaper) motor that also means (all things being equal) less noise and less vibrations to control.
I would be very surprised if Niche is not working on something exciting but are they going to solve all the difficulties that come with a flat burrs set when the might of companies like Eureka and Ceado are yet to totally nail it? Tough to say.
BlackCatCoffee all the difficulties that come with a flat burrs set when the might of companies like Eureka and Ceado are yet to totally nail it? Tough to say.
That’s a fair point, it might be why the companies making flat burr grinders are struggling….
DavecUK Perhaps it highlights the fact, that the big traditional companies do not really understand the issues and will simply wait and see if someone else can nail it then try and copy
- Edited
BlackCatCoffee Fair!
I totally understand what you are saying. You know about coffee and equipments more than I would ever know.
We are not saying “lazy” but I am still surprised that biggies like Mignon took a short cut than designing from scratch. Yes, it is lovely, sturdy and makes a great espresso. But, …
I own and develop products in technology space. It’s not a joke to design something from scratch as I understand what it takes to bring a successful product.
It’s possible Mignon knew how it will be received and sold; perhaps it is a teaser, which I really hope it is. I am sure, Niche is working on their flat grinder and it may not completely solve what the ever ails the flat burr segment. But, I doubt if they will release something that they don’t like!
Edit :
Btw, thx for sending CP and the half decaf orders to the girls. They fell in love with your CP; they can’t wait to open the half decaf. I plan to send them a couple of more tasters from you. I will then let them decide what they want as a subscription from you guys. Thx