ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva

MediumRoastSteam

CoyoteOldMan I’ve just steamed 90 ml of milk with the 2-hole tip, and it added 15 grams of water

Excluding purging I take?

LMSC

How do you measure how much water is consumed ? I can’t judge looking at the water tank.

We always steam after purging. We can add purging to minerals deposited.

Minerals left behind are directly proportional to the water evaporated from steaming and condensation. Both together can’t be 100 ml per steaming. If we take 50 ml as a max, if a litre of mineralised water is assumed to have 25 mg/l of total hardness, which is a lot, the 50 ml would leave 1.25 mg of total hardness equivalent minerals. This is what gets added successively, given a lack of flushing.

If I were to steam 4 times a day, then, 6 mg of minerals are deposited. In a month, that would be 180 mg hardness equivalent minerals. That’s a lot for scales to form.

CoyoteOldMan

LMSC How do you measure how much water is consumed ? I can’t judge looking at the water tank.

Weigh the milk jug before and after the steaming - difference in weight = weight of steam added (and since it’s water, 1 ml = 1 g)

MediumRoastSteam Yep - after purging and getting to dry steam. Which adds another 10 - 15 grams of liquid.

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bu99er again - I’m always 5 posts too late!

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC How do you measure how much water is consumed ? I can’t judge looking at the water tank.

Weigh the jug with milk you are about to steam;

Note the weight;

Steam milk;

Weigh the jug with the steamed milk;

Note the weight.

Subtract the first measurement from the last and then you’ll have how much water was used.

LMSC

DavecUK And a steam boiler that has been evaporating water away for possibly up to a year via a leak….

That’s a big unknown. One is required to examine not just the top but also tip this beast over and examine once in 3 months may be?

DavecUK

LMSC I’ve not said that at all. David never drained down his boiler from the hot tap and refreshed occasionally. The steam leak leaves behind everything, we don’t know the TDS of his ro water

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I look so stupid after reading your how to ! 🤦😂

dfk41

So, ignoring personal usage, what we are saying for anyone with a twin boiler, is at least once a week or more, draw off say 300 to 400 mls as part of your coffee routine?

LMSC

dfk41 once a week or more, draw off say 300 to 400 mls

3 times a week a cup each time to be safe, if not a cup at the end of steaming for the day.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam

I flush the boiler of my Elizabeth every 2 months! 3 times a week is over the top!

Honestly @dfk41 - drain the boiler (via the hot water tap) once a month and that should be enough. That would exchange the saturated water in he steam (service) boiler and exchange for fresh one from the tank.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam 3 times a week is drawing a cup.

Please remember, at least the first two batches of the owners’ steam boiler hot water flush cannot drain the water 100% - unlike Minima. The pipe length inside the service boiler is about 70% from the top of the boiler. So, a monthly full flush will not drain the boiler completely.

I do not remember how much the service boiler will fill. I remember (if I remember correctly), the full flesh on our service boiler always drawing about 850-900 ml water from the hot water tap.

This was corrected in subsequent releases. That’s why some of us installed a drain valve at the bottom of the service boiler.

Hope it clarifies.

Edit :

I agree, a regular full flesh is will work very well.

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam drain the boiler (via the hot water tap) once a month and that should be enough.

If you want to go further, after draining and before turning the machine on again, fill the tank with pure RO/distilled/zero water, without any added minerals. It’s a bit more of a faff, but it does help to keep TDS low in the steam boiler.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC 3 times a week is drawing a cup.

The best way really is monitor the TDS on your steam/service boiler and go from there.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Absolutely. However, TDS is not as helpful , IMO, as it could contain anything. A drop kit measuring GH and KH will be super helpful. It won’t still tell you when did scales started forming. But, you get an idea.

I test when ever Indian full flesh from the drain valve.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC However, TDS is not as helpful , IMO, as it could contain anything

It’s helpful to determine when you need to refresh your steam boiler for sure.

I.e.: if your input water has a reading of 40TDS at room temperature, you then know that if your service boiler water has a reading of 200 TDS at room temperature (yes, you need to let it cool down) it’s time to refresh it.

You don’t need a GH or KH for this. But you can use it, of course.

Eiffel

For what it’s worth, here are some TDS figures from my early production Evo (S/N #25, roughly one year old) using exclusively water from my Osmio Zero with the ‘remineralisation’ cartridge after making an total of around 200 small lattes, and flushing roughly one cup on water (slightly less than 100g/cc in effect) after each of these drinks -basically stopping when what comes out of the water wand becomes largely steam :

TDS of the water in the tank: 36 (it varies between 30 and 40 depending on the day), measured at 22°C (still with the original set of filters)

TDS of the water from the water wand: 55, also measured at 22°C

I’m far from a water expert, but these numbers seem OK to me, at least for now.

LMSC

JahLaza I thought forking out for an osmio would save my machine! Good thing I don’t steam too much I spose

It’s nothing to do Osmio Zero. If we steam, let the minerals settle and do not recycle water, the scaling will kick-in.

Eiffel Drawing a cup after every steam works well, so far. I draw a little more every time, besides quarterly flush.

The service boiler stat over 14 months are:

The TDS range is 60-70,
temp range is 19-24C,
alkalinity range is 40 mg/l - 48 mg/,l and
the hardness range is 7 mg/l - 20 mg/l

JahLaza

And I thought forking out for an osmio would save my machine! Good thing I don’t steam too much I spose

MediumRoastSteam

On the Elizabeth, the purge was 4g of water.

There was a 21g difference in weight between the weight of the milk jug before and after steaming. So, in total, steaming 250g of milk drew 21ml from the boiler (or 25ml if counting the initial purge).

Edit: I tried again, this time purging the wand properly rather than trying to keep the steam inside an cup! I the difference was 12g, more in line with what I remember recording in the past. I could only assume the other 9g of water would therefore be part of the initial purge.

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