Hey there, I have my Bianca for a year now. I know the paddle can get a little stiff at times, but recently it got stiffer especially under pressure - which is when I use it the most of course. It’s not the first time, but the last time it happened (6 months ago) I used Molykote 111 to lube the needle valve and gaskets and everything was ok. This time, I again used the Molykote 111 and it got even stiffer. While the needle valve assembly is still in my hand, I tried rotating it back and forth and felt that when the gaskets are entering the mushroom cap it feels really sticky and not smooth enough. I tried wiping the lube and replaced the gaskets with new and spare ones I had. But still it’s the same. Just to make sure it’s clear, when the portafilter is under pressure with hot water, rotating the paddle is really difficult. This also happens when the needle is rotated counter clockwise all the way, so it is not an issue with the needle entering the gicleur (I believe). Maybe there’s a better food grade lubricant ? Maybe something happened to the grease itself and I need to get a new one ? Would really appreciate suggestions. Thanks all.

@"yonika"#p25442 Some photos of the dismantled valve may be useful. @"Norvin"#47 may also have something to add. I would recommend that lubrication more often than every 6 months is desirable. Also check this out the knowledge base article on this valve https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/blog

@"DavecUK"#p25445 Here are the pics. I forgot to mention that after a few rotations the grease becomes darker and darker. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/5TTjNod.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5TTjNod.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/lVYv2Tg.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lVYv2Tg.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/kdHo53v.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/kdHo53v.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/4T8Z0ZN.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/4T8Z0ZN.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/cpdLu6z.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cpdLu6z.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@"yonika"#p25448 is it stiff to turn when not fitted to the machine? Oh exactly the right photos as well, hopefully we can help. @"Norvin"#47 , what do you think.

These sound like the symptoms that @"thusband"#199 reported just before the internal thread in the top nut stripped. I replaced the thread and the valve operates smoothly now, suggesting that the fault was due to the thread. Could it be wear or a build up of crud on the respective threads? I can only suggest a thorough clean of the threads on both the shaft and inside the nut, with a smear of Molykote on reassembly.

@"DavecUK"#p25449 It feels stiff mostly when under pressure, but when not fitted it feels as if the most of the friction is coming from the gaskets rubbing on the inside of the mushroom cap. When you screw back the needle valve to the hex cap, you turn it counter clockwise and it is lifted. At some point, the black gaskets enter the cylinder of the cap, this is when I feel the grease is sticky and not smooth enough. Hope this explanation was clear 😬 Thanks

@"Norvin"#p25450 See my reply to Dave. It feels as if the friction comes from the gaskets rubbing inside the cap. Thanks for your help

No more ideas ? I tried removing the needle again, brushing the threads with brass brush. Cleaning residue of old grease with microfiber cloth and re-greasing with a smear of Molykote. After assembly everything felt smooth, but when I turn the pump on and hot water is flowing through the device it gets stiff again - even with no pressure. When I stop the flow it stays stiff until I pull the e61 lever half way - My guess is that it empties the chamber of the gicleur from hot water. So… what’s going on there ? 😔

> @"yonika"#p25519 So… what’s going on there ? It's difficult to know…. 1. It could be that when the heat expands the metals, then the thread gets tight, especially if it's stiff throughout the whole range, which eliminates the o rings 2. If it's stiff under pressure, it's because again the thread will have a slight upward pressure applied. 3. If it's stiff after a shot, the sealed brew system gets up to about 12 bar, due to water expansion, this is relieved as doon as you lower the lever enough for the top group valve to open So guessing a bit more, and I need to be careful here….especially as I don't know the water used, whether you have descaled etc.. **I emphasise, what follows is mostly guesswork** You got the machine and never saw my review of the valve itself which said the assembly comes (in my opinion) insufficiently lubricated and before fitting one should lubricate it. This was for the valve bought to fit on other machines. The logical corollary of this is, Lelit get the assembled valve, and fit it in the Bianca. **The second logical step is that if you buy a Bianca, it might be a good idea to remove the valve before using and add more lubrication.** The valve gets stiffer and you continue to use it…not worrying about it and not lubricating it. The O rings degenerate (they are EPDM, not FKM) and possibly some seepage of liquid gets in the threads. The pin thread is steel I think (guessing) and the nut is brass…steel and brass can react if surrounded by a little water. Finally it's so stiff you remove it and lubricate it, even replace the O rings, but the damage to the thread in the brass nut may already be done…you cannot buy the brass nut as a service part. Under no pressure the thread might feel fine, but under pressure is when it gets hard to move due to wear, continual use simply wears it more until eventually it fails. Fortunately @"Norvin"#47 may well have an effective repair for the nuts. It may well be worth people sending their nuts to him for his services, should he want to handle peoples nuts? The article I linked you to gives you a link to a source of much longer lasting FKM (Viton) O rings £8 for 100 delivered. *P.S. I have mentioned the lack of lubrication I found on my **one** valve sent for evaluation and that I think they should get their supplier to change to FKM O rings. I may well contact Mauro to as the suppliers to make the nut available as a spare. I don't know if that will solve the problem, but he might send me a few nuts to try?? They are owned by Breville now, so I am not sure if/how he can respond.*

@"DavecUK"#p25536 @"DavecUK"#p25536 Thanks for the reply. It would be great if the nut can be sold separately as a spare. It is a but non-sense that one would need to buy the whole kit for a repair. I am worried though that you’re right and the nut thread is damaged. 😔

@yonica. There is not much information on the Lelit paddle, and no information on the thread that I could find. It has a very strange, non-standard thread that took me ages to work out how to replicate. I eventually succeeded and managed to repair a faulty nut, check out my ACS Minima restoration thread on this forum for a little more information. I have four more threaded inserts and was thinking of either offering them for sale so people could have them inserted into their nuts by someone with a lathe (say £30 each to reflect the time and hassle of making them) or I can repair the nut with an insert for £60. I can't do any machining in September.

Stiff Bianca Paddle before and after lubrication

DavecUK

alex68 When I get them, I won’t be selling them, but keeping them to give to forum members with a problem. Where the thread has stripped out.

alex68

DavecUK I am sure it is thread from the nut . The shaft is looking good. That thread came off like a spring almost without breaking. Thanks you very much for all information you share with us.

Amberale

Bugger, the o-rings have sorted out the stiff paddle but there is some problem with the flow control.
The paddle will shut off the flow if closed all the way but doesn’t have the gradual drop off that it used to have.

I have pulled the group sections and re-lubed to no avail.

The pin definitely screws into the Gicleur and the threads are not worn.
Is it possible/reasonable that the pin/gicleur has worn to the extent that it no longer has the subtle closing?
Is the pin tapered?

DavecUK

Amberale Is it possible/reasonable that the pin/gicleur has worn to the extent that it no longer has the subtle closing?
Is the pin tapered?

I doubt it would wear and cause this and the pin is not tapered. Do you have a vid of what’s happening to the flow, as you move the paddle?

Amberale

I decided to pull the Gicleur even though it looked clean.
It was a lot looser than I expected but I took it down the shed and refaced it with a bit of 1500 wet and dry on a piece of plate glass.
I went to put it back in using your wet paper towel trick and the threaded section snapped before I put any sort of pressure on it.
The broken section is corroded so it seems my unit might have been among those mid-2020 units that had over tightened Gicleurs but my exceptionally delicate and talented use has helped it last this long. 🤣

CoyoteOldMan

Amberale the threaded section snapped before I put any sort of pressure on it

That is uncommonly good luck. Imagine the joy of pulling out the broken threaded part from the mushroom if it had been tightened…

Hope you can find a replacement quickly and keep enjoying coffee.

DavecUK

Make sure the hole in the replacement is the right size…

Amberale

Yes it was a simple remove fortunately.
Unfortunately the Australian distributor is closed for the weekend and only lists the complete kit as a spare part.
The two big US agents both list the gicleur as a separate part so hopefully I can do that in Oz as well.
I have the steam boiler dribble as well so I’ll check this weekend to confirm which part I need for that and order them together.

DavecUK

I’m not 100% certain, but i think you need a 0.7 mm gicleur. Don’t forget a touch of Molykote on the threads.

Amberale

DavecUK
I’m pretty sure that it is 1.5mm but I’ll double check before I buy.
It is easy enough to try a couple of mini drill bits in the hole(smooth end of course).
I’d be tempted to use never-seize but I do make coffee for friends and it really doesn’t need to be very tight.
I might fire up the little Caravel tomorrow.
Every cloud has a silver lining. :)

DavecUK

Amberale You might be right about the size, as I must have removed my Minima gicleur for a reason, and the Minima one is 0.7mm

P.S. I reviewed my Minima installation vid.

Amberale

DavecUK

I remember that vid with fondness.
I nearly bought a Minima after watching but I was set on a rotary pump.
I still like the Minima though.
I reckon you removed the finer Minima gicleur to fit the FCD kit.
It’s gauge has to be larger to fit the needle.

DavecUK

Amberale that’s quite correct. I still like the Minima, really performs.

coffeealex

minima flow install vid- Dave C

Amberale

So, the Australian distributor doesn’t have individual units but they do have a Faema gicleur which can be drilled out to suit.
At $4 a pop I am happy to give them a shot but… I have a very good workshop and access to even better ones.
YMMV.
I’ll let you know how I go, I have ordered 4.
Craig

CoyoteOldMan

Amberale I have a very good workshop and access to even better ones

I was going to say… I wouldn’t want to drill something like that without a very good drill press or mill.

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan yup, don’t want that pin catching or rinning out of line. That said, the hole is already there as a guide, which helps a lot.

Amberale

DavecUK

I am considering tapering the end of the pin, just the last mm.

DavecUK

Amberale I am not sure that’s a great idea.

Amberale

DavecUK

Neither am I.
It is not a tapered needle fitting into a tapered jet so I don’t see how it could affect the flow other than when the point is just entering the hole.
On the other hand if one were to be slightly inaccurate in drilling the new hole in the gicleur then a tapered/beveled end would help it enter the hole rather than bouncing and bending.

DavecUK

Amberale On the other hand if one were to be slightly inaccurate in drilling the new hole in the gicleur then a tapered/beveled end would help it enter the hole rather than bouncing and bending.

No, it would probably bend the pin, wear the edge of the hole, or turn over the tip….when you next took the pin assembly out for lubrication, you might have further problems. In most tapered pin valves I have seen, the pin never leaves the hole…for the Lelit system, this isn’t the case.

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