I am looking for a new machine and as originally thinking the profitec 700 was the best engineered ( after watching a review from USA.) After watching another review I now think the Lelit is far superior. I am really confused. I was initially put off by the lelit as the mushroom was not stainless steel but the engineering and design seem amazing and good value as well. The flow paddle gives an interesting novel feature which in a way mimics a lever machine. I can see very little against it . My priorities are: 1. a good extraction 2. well designed 3. easy to service 4. quality components 5. spares easy to obtain 6. reliable Which one should i go for to fit those criteria please?

@"coffeealex"#p25735 I do not know anything about Profitec, but Bianca will serve you very well. It hasn’t disappointed the Bianca owners, who are plenty here. @"Cuprajake"#144 was one happy owner until acquiring Evo. Edit Please review some of the Bianca threads here https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/?q=bianca

If I had to choose between bianca and pro-700, I’d go Bianca. Better value for money, more features. If I had to choose between Bianca and Pro-700 with flow control, and money was no objection… I think I’d still go with the Bianca for some of the features and a flow control valve which is easier to maintain. I owned a Pro-700 in the past. It was a good machine. But it’s been essentially the same machine for ages now. Apart from the upgrade in steam boiler pressure to 2 bar, I don’t think there was much else. Saying all of the above, Lelit has been taken over by the Breville group. That may sway in your decision.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p25745 Saying all of the above, Lelit has been taken over by the Breville group. That may sway in your decision. Thanks for that. Lelit was the one i was going for. The Breville bit does make me pause but then I am thinking that the current model has been designed by Lelit with input from some very clever people and so essentially is Lelit more than Breville

Very very happy Bianca owner here. However! I almost never really use the flow control. It can be fun to play around with profiling and see how it affects different beans but I get such incredible shots without touching the flow control I don’t bother 99% of the time. I’m not sure if Lelit do a dual boiler without flow control but if they did and I was buying again I’d go for that. No complaints about the machine though, a joy to use and own and not a single issue with it in coming up to a year of owning it.

> @"Ernie1"#p25748 I’m not sure if Lelit do a dual boiler without flow control but if they did and I was buying again I’d go for that. The Elizabeth: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html

@"Ernie1"#p25748 THank you> I think i probably would not use the flow control often . Did think it might come in useful if I wanted a weaker shot or just to experiment with it. Encouraging to hear you are pleased with it and with no issues.

I like the Bianca so much I have 2 of them….it's a fine machine, I don't think you will be disappointed with your choice.

Bianca is a very clever machine, I loved mine

I think I know the 2 videos you are referring to, no love lost between those two! I've had the Bianca for about a month now and I'm all in on flow control. The Slayer style shots have been working great! The v3 Bianca does a few things the Pro700 doesn't thanks to the electronics/LCC and I love the way it looks, as does my wife (most importantly). I've yet to try the half pressure pump start/preinfusion on the LCC, been doing it all manually so far.

I've had my Bianca for a couple of years now and still love it. I use the flow control with every shot. I had to replace the T-shaped hose fittings as the originals disintegrated. Also I needed a new safety valve but it was pretty easy to replace. Lots of help and advice here on the forum. The biggest thing for me was the flow control valve needed replacing. It wasn't cheap but it was my fault. I failed to do the routine maintenance so an expensive lesson learned.

Lelit Bianca or profitec 700.

thusband

coffeealex Just out of curiosity what routine maintenance did you fail to do that you think would have avoided the problem in your case

I failed to simply remove the flow control and grease the needle valve and nut threads with a little Molykote. I should have been doing it every three months or so. I was feeling some stiffness when turning the paddle and then nothing. The threads were completely stripped and I had to buy a replacement kit (not cheap).

LMSC

Now, thanks to @Norvin’s engineering brain / innovation and @DavecUK, one does not have to buy the full kit anymore. We should also thank Lelit for listening.

Please see this thread for details

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1033-stiff-bianca-paddle-before-and-after-lubrication/12

No more expensive replacements! :-)

coffeealex

Well Now after my phone call to Bella Barista I am totally confused. i phoned the technical department re some parts I needed and told them I was looking to potentially buy a Lelit and i was asked politely why was I so eager to buy one. He acknowledged the lelit was a good machine but in his opinion and vast experience the profitec was a much higher quality machine. Such things as surgical steel been used on that and not the other, reliability, etc. In fact apparently that’s what they use there for demonstrations etc. It was also his machine of choice and he owned one. He was an extremely experienced guy, polite and was very candid. I value any opinion from anyone and have seen conflicting videos from a profitec and lelit end saying they are superior to each other. Has anyone owned both on this forum? I am sure both are good but not sure what to go for now.

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex If you can, I would suggest you pay them a visit in person and see the machines in the flesh before making a decision.

They sell both machines… The Profitec costs £200 more and has less features. You got to ask yourself why the suggestion of one over the other, realistically.

Ultimately, it’s you who will use the machine, not them, so you need to be happy with the machine you buy, as they are not cheap.

CoyoteOldMan

coffeealex One thing to bear in mind is that there are also commercial interests… which are probably changing/recently changed considering the acquisition of Lelit by Breville/Sage.

I haven’t owned either, but I considered both (and the ECM Synchronika) a few months ago when deciding what machine to get, and ultimately I reached the following conclusion/summary:

+ for ECM/Profitech: construction/assembly, reliability (minor +)
+ for Lelit: innovation/features, upgradeability, footprint and cost (particularly assuming flow profiling is required/desirable)

Looks are subjective - of the 3, I would prefer the Synchronika because I prefer levers to knobs for steam/water (and a few months ago the levers weren’t even an option on the Profitec).

In the end, had I gone for an E61 machine, I would have picked the Bianca because of its innovation, footprint and cost. What did I buy? A lever machine that is innovative, very well built, but has a large footprint and costs even more than the ECM. Go figure…

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam The Profitec costs £200 and has less features.

I found one for £65: https://www.nacatinshop.co.uk/product/index/pID/1956

MediumRoastSteam

It’s only £10 more expensive than a Nespresso!!!! 🤣

I’m so tempted to hit “Buy” and see what happens….

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam got to be something not right? but as you say its tempting to hit buy….,, might turn out to be bye bye to the money

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam is it a typo? £65? They retailing for up around 2k new, is this new or am I comparing different machines?!

DavecUK

If BB was referring to the stainless of the boilers, I know the Lelit use AISI 316L (commonly known as surgical steel) in the Bianca. I would think Profitec use the same.

coffeealex

DavecUK i think he was referring to the steel on the outside. But if Lelit are using surgical grade steel on their boilers then that’s pretty good. Surgical steel has better anti corrosive properties if I am not mistaken

coffeealex

DavecUK I know you rate both machines highly but purely down to extraction quality are they more or less the same in your opinion? Ie if you put the same coffee/ tamp/flow/ pressure would the shots be more or less the same or would one eg have more crema

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex got to be something not right? but as you say its tempting to hit buy….,, might turn out to be bye bye to the money

Likely. I checked the phone number, and it’s from a takeaway restaurant in Southampton. Steer clear!

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza is it a typo? £65? They retailing for up around 2k new, is this new or am I comparing different machines?!

I think it’s a scam. All items are crazy cheap!

CoyoteOldMan

JahLaza Sorry - I should have made it clear that this is clearly a scam! I just found it funny that MediumRoastSteam made a typo (missing a zero in the price), but I managed to find a “cheaper” one.

dfk41

coffeealex Afternoon, question for you. One person you seek advice from works on a not for profit expansion of the coffee industry for the benefit of consumers……the other is a coffee salesman! Which one do you think is going to give the more balanced answer and which one is more likely to go and check stock levels and profit margins before he answers!
You are not comparing like for like matey. If you do not want to pressure profile then why consider a Bianca? If you want to pressure profile, then why consider a Profitec as it cannot………

DavecUK

coffeealex The coffees that require a simple extraction would be pretty much the same, those that would benefit from flow profiling and bloom phase would not.

In addition look at the entire feature set of each machine and decide what best fits your lifestyle. As someone said, you can buy a profiling kit for the Profitec.

I may well be updating my old Lelit Bianca review with one for the V3 Bianca….when I get time.

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam good detective work!

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam ah ha!

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 If you want to pressure profile, then why consider a Profitec as it cannot………

To be fair, both Profitec and ECM have pressure/flow profiling kits as optional (or as standard in some versions of the 700/Synchronika).

I think “we” (yourself, @MediumRoastSteam and I) are all aligned on having to be cognisant of the vested interests of those we seek advice from…

coffeealex

dfk41 Thanks i get your point. This is the main reason I am on this forum. I think though it is useful to get a viewpoint from all angles even if there is a bias as sometimes a feature is highlighted that you may not be aware of. For me they both are very good machines and I do not think that either would be a poor choice. Again maybe I should take it with a pinch of salt but heard it from more than one employee that they see far less profitec machines breaking down than any other make. If i buy from BB the pressure profiling issue is now slightly redundant as they are not selling going forward any non profiling profitec.

The point is probably best illustrated in the Mark and Java Jim videos which contrast each other. Interestingly enough they both seem to have been taken down from what I can see. I have to say though it does annoy me that lelit chose to put a chrome plated mushroom and not stainless steel. After all the chrome will come off and probably after only 4-8 weeks, which begs the question where does it end up?

I was sold on Lelit, now back to 50/50

MediumRoastSteam

I second @dfk41 - That was exactly what I was trying to say in my post, but in a more diplomatic way 🤣

By the time you add a flow control valve to the Profitec and a gauge, you’ll be approx. £400 (if not more) above the binaca price.

That does not give you any of the other features the Bianca has. To put it simply, there’s nothing the Bianca can’t do that the Profitec can.

It’s all down to aesthetics and personal preference at the end of the day.

Personally, unless you really want a Profitec machine and are convinced that it will make a better coffee because it’s made in Germany, I would defo politely ignore the salesman advice given and go with your instincts for what you want.

MediumRoastSteam

CoyoteOldMan I should have made it clear that this is clearly a scam! I just found it funny that MediumRoastSteam made a typo (missing a zero in the price),

I meant to have written £200 more. I’ve corrected the post now. 👍

« Previous Page Next Page »