I am looking for a new machine and as originally thinking the profitec 700 was the best engineered ( after watching a review from USA.) After watching another review I now think the Lelit is far superior. I am really confused. I was initially put off by the lelit as the mushroom was not stainless steel but the engineering and design seem amazing and good value as well. The flow paddle gives an interesting novel feature which in a way mimics a lever machine. I can see very little against it . My priorities are: 1. a good extraction 2. well designed 3. easy to service 4. quality components 5. spares easy to obtain 6. reliable Which one should i go for to fit those criteria please?

@"coffeealex"#p25735 I do not know anything about Profitec, but Bianca will serve you very well. It hasn’t disappointed the Bianca owners, who are plenty here. @"Cuprajake"#144 was one happy owner until acquiring Evo. Edit Please review some of the Bianca threads here https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/?q=bianca

If I had to choose between bianca and pro-700, I’d go Bianca. Better value for money, more features. If I had to choose between Bianca and Pro-700 with flow control, and money was no objection… I think I’d still go with the Bianca for some of the features and a flow control valve which is easier to maintain. I owned a Pro-700 in the past. It was a good machine. But it’s been essentially the same machine for ages now. Apart from the upgrade in steam boiler pressure to 2 bar, I don’t think there was much else. Saying all of the above, Lelit has been taken over by the Breville group. That may sway in your decision.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p25745 Saying all of the above, Lelit has been taken over by the Breville group. That may sway in your decision. Thanks for that. Lelit was the one i was going for. The Breville bit does make me pause but then I am thinking that the current model has been designed by Lelit with input from some very clever people and so essentially is Lelit more than Breville

Very very happy Bianca owner here. However! I almost never really use the flow control. It can be fun to play around with profiling and see how it affects different beans but I get such incredible shots without touching the flow control I don’t bother 99% of the time. I’m not sure if Lelit do a dual boiler without flow control but if they did and I was buying again I’d go for that. No complaints about the machine though, a joy to use and own and not a single issue with it in coming up to a year of owning it.

> @"Ernie1"#p25748 I’m not sure if Lelit do a dual boiler without flow control but if they did and I was buying again I’d go for that. The Elizabeth: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html

@"Ernie1"#p25748 THank you> I think i probably would not use the flow control often . Did think it might come in useful if I wanted a weaker shot or just to experiment with it. Encouraging to hear you are pleased with it and with no issues.

I like the Bianca so much I have 2 of them….it's a fine machine, I don't think you will be disappointed with your choice.

Bianca is a very clever machine, I loved mine

I think I know the 2 videos you are referring to, no love lost between those two! I've had the Bianca for about a month now and I'm all in on flow control. The Slayer style shots have been working great! The v3 Bianca does a few things the Pro700 doesn't thanks to the electronics/LCC and I love the way it looks, as does my wife (most importantly). I've yet to try the half pressure pump start/preinfusion on the LCC, been doing it all manually so far.

I've had my Bianca for a couple of years now and still love it. I use the flow control with every shot. I had to replace the T-shaped hose fittings as the originals disintegrated. Also I needed a new safety valve but it was pretty easy to replace. Lots of help and advice here on the forum. The biggest thing for me was the flow control valve needed replacing. It wasn't cheap but it was my fault. I failed to do the routine maintenance so an expensive lesson learned.

Lelit Bianca or profitec 700.

LMSC

SurreyAlan Too many assumptions - temperature control, steam burst, can’t tell the difference. What ever you do, please make a wise choice and avoid buyer’s remorse.

Cuprajake

SurreyAlan temperature control is key,

If you can get a machine that’s stable you’re onto a winner.

coffeealex

Still doing research on my final machine. Want to avoid buyers remorse. I think looking at what I am prepared to spend it will be down to Lelit Bianca or ecm synchronika mode.

I am finding it hard to justify the extra £600 for an ECM. The only real justification I had was that the ECM would be easier to service. Even if it is, does that justify an extra £600? Maybe some that have knowledge of servicing on both can help me out on this one please.

Also is the flow profile (in actual in the cup results) identical on both? I know the V3 has programmable profiling . If we put that aside and use it manually would they be identical?

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex The only real justification I had was that the ECM would be easier to service.

In which sense?

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam I just thought that the extra room would make it easier to swing a spanner. I must be honest though, I am moving back towards the lelit the more I read. I understand everything is a personal decision , but I do value other people’s opinions. What do you think of it all. Is the profiling ability on the 2 machines about the same? availability of spare parts? etc. I appreciate all viewpoints.

Edit: ignore the availability of parts bit as just reread Dave C post saying that either is ok on that basis and if he says that, it’s good enough for me.

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex What do you think of it all

I had coffee from a Bianca V3 a while back when it was not even released, courtesy of Dave. 😊- the machine was a pleasant to use, and the coffee was great.

I owned a Profitec 700 a while back, in 2015, and it was a nice machine.

I can’t say anymore with regards to the Bianca because I never really used it day in/out.

I have an Elizabeth, and I can tell you one can defo taste the difference in profiling with and without bloom pre-infusion - but you might be able to mimic that with the flow control valve anyway.

When you went to Bella Barista (I think you did) did you have the opportunity to see three machines you shortlisted? Which one did you like the most, which one did you see yourself owning?

coffeealex

DavecUK The coffees that require a simple extraction would be pretty much the same, those that would benefit from flow profiling and bloom phase would not.

Just going over some posts and wanted if i may to clarify where the difference is? I am assuming if they had both profiling kits then once the lelit paddle range is readjusted, then in manual adjustment they would be about the same technically but the lelit (in v3 format) offers better repeatability due to its extra programmability. Is that about right?

DavecUK

coffeealex Bianca V3 has some software functions the profitec does not.

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam

Thanks for your viewpoints. I did not go to BB in the end partly because of the distance, but more so as I don’t feel I would have been any more informed. Imo I would have been told that ECM is a better build etc. As someone pointed out all I would have got was a salesperson’s viewpoint. I think assessing information from all areas without weighting any of it is the way to go, but fundamentally looking to fit my requirements.

MediumRoastSteam which one did you see yourself owning?

At the moment I am nearly done in my search and leaning towards Lelit, mostly because I am struggling to see £ 600 more value in the ECM sync. They practically do the same thing, and one could argue the Lelit does a bit more. As one of my other priorities is RO water, the money could go towards that.

Put it another way if someone said to me here is an ECM sync on the one side and on the other a Lelit with an extra free gift of an RO system with some cartridges thrown in, then it’s hard to turn it down.

For sure the Lelit is not perfect, but neither is the ECM Sync with say its shallow drip tray. Is ECM the super reliable mega machine that a lot will say. That’s debatable as I could probably find as many ECM consumers with problem machines as I could Lelit ones. An example of how easy you could find faults is below

ecm 2 years on video

Do i believe everything I see? No! but it’s still information which may or may not add a few more pieces to the puzzle.

Could the Lelit be not reliable? the answer is any machine could, and especially so if its not maintained well. As long as spare parts are available then Im ok with either.

In conclusion as many on here have pointed out both are high quality machines and I believe whichever would be a good purchase.

Cuprajake

I don’t think you can go wrong with either.

At this point you’re over analysing

If it were me I’d buy the Bianca and a good water system with the saved money

Or

The ECM/profitec with a good water system

Or

The used leva in the classified section, and a good water system

I know you’re concerned about the servicing side, but if you use a water that will never scale. That will eliminate 99.9% of any of the problems your going to face in the future.

MediumRoastSteam

As you can see @coffeealex , good water is the key path for success here.

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex - and what about the Pro-700?

Doram

coffeealex I did not go to BB in the end partly because of the distance, but more so as I don’t feel I would have been any more informed. Imo I would have been told that ECM is a better build etc. As someone pointed out all I would have got was a salesperson’s viewpoint.

If I were torn between two machines and had a chance to see them in person, I would definitely go for it. Whatever a salesperson says, it’s up to you to then decide how much weight you give it.

Seeing in person, touching, pressing buttons and lifting levers may well (or may not) sway your heart one way or another (or change your pre-conceptions from the information you gathered beforehand). If possible, a close look and hand-on the machine is something I would want. (Having said that, I didn’t have an opportunity to see my machine before buying it, but I was not disappointed when I go it.)

LMSC

coffeealex In conclusion as many on here have pointed out both are high quality machines and I believe whichever would be a good purchase.

Giphy - Its About To Get Real Here We Go GIF by Amazon Prime Video

and the winner is?

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam and what about the Pro-700?

I discounted that one because of 3 reasons. Firstly I think to keep having to take off the cups just to put water would annoy me after a bit and to take off the case was more fiddly compared to the syncronika. Lastly the accessories were of poorer quality than the sync which was at that point not that much more in mode form. Identical under the hood but felt the few differences were worth paying for as I did intend to use the tank

coffeealex

Doram I dont disagree in many ways. If they had both on display and functional i.e. you could actually extract a shot then I would definitely go as you are getting a proper feel for the machine

coffeealex

Doram If I were torn between two machines and had a chance to see them in person, I would definitely go for it

Going to do that as have arranged an opportunity to try them next week ( actual usage) with my own coffee. Seeing them extracting a shot makes sense, and myself doing that will help.

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex for what’s worth, when I had the Pro-700, although the top cup tray is the total depth and width of the machine, you can just lift and move it forwards slightly so that the is fully accessible. You don’t need to completely lift out of the machine. But I don’t know, that was in 2015 and the design might have well changed.

As for to remove the case, I don’t understand what the issue is… in comparison to the Elizabeth for example (a totally different machine, mind!) the Pro-700 wins hands down. I’d say it’s extremely easy to remove the top panel and the side panels. Very easy in fact. But then again, that was in 2015 and things might have changed. I never had a Bianca or Sinchronika so can’t say much else.

It’s a tough call. But I feel the Bianca has an edge to it… 😉

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam Thank you for that. I take it from your reading your posts the Lelit Elizabeth has served you well with no real issues, giving you some great shots, which is nice to hear

coffeealex

For anyone interested, below is review of the Lelit Bianca from an Italian website. To translate into english simply right click the mouse and choose translate into english. Its a google translator but accurate enough

.lelit review from Italy

If you scroll to the bottom of the page you will find 15 coffee desert recipes Italian style

« Previous Page Next Page »