Ethiopian Sidamo and Medium / Medium Dark Roast. 20g, 1.4 turns in Jx Pro, 46.4g out and took a little longer at almost a minute. The group was set 93C and the brew was set at 99C. Took 18s for the first drop into the cup. This is too long. I thought the cup isn’t going to be good. It was so good, I drank straight as an espresso. Fruity citrus and lemon grass for me. It will definitely benefit from loosening the grind. This bag will be very good for brewing for sure, which is what I will do later today. https://imgur.com/a/vTgy8Be

@"LMSC"#p1024 The beans look well roasted for a medium dark roast….who was the roaster?

@"DavecUK"#p1035 Clumsy Goat. They stated both the Peru and this Ethiopian are medium roast. I did not think so. I reckoned the Peru was medium dark / dark. That bag was ok; I was never happy with that Peruvian Bag. This Ethiopian is very good and sweet. I was erring more on the medium dark; I didn’t think it’s a dark roast, looking at the dark yellow / light brown colours at the crevice of the beans; I thought they may have been taken out just before the second crack, not at the second. Obviously, I lack a roasting experience and still learning to differentiate the roasts. 😊 You won’t call it as a dark roast, would you ? Thx

> @"LMSC"#p1039 You won’t call it as a dark roast, would you ? Thx I would call that medium dark…it's about as dark as I like to go, normally I'm in the medium or medium light camps. as my personal preference and that of my roast sharers. That roast was nowhere near 2nd crack and I would guess it's about 30-50 seconds after first…not roasted too fast because I can't see any oil and no charred chaff lines, indicating the burners going off before 1st crack and the roast allowed to coast into it. My guess for what it's worth…anyway, they did a good job.

Crown and canvas - first light Brazilian and colombian blend. Bag states dark chocolate, hazelnut and red berry and I have to say it delivers! Espresso 16g in 32g out: really rich dark chocolate and hazelnut (think greene and blacks) and a gentle acidity to finish. Lovely mouthfeel and long lasting. As a flat white everything’s sweetened up and it really pushes the hazelnut flavour. Delicious. Off to make another 😉

@"Baldrick"#p1770 Hadn't heard of Crown and Canvas before. Having looked at their website and following your positive recommendation I think I will be giving them a try.

@"Dumnorix"#p1793 very popular roaster and some great coffees by all accounts. If you check our commercial directory, you will find some good and reliable companies to use. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/52-commercial-members-list

@"DavecUK"#p1796 Many thanks for the link.

Origin Colombia Estate Café Granja La Esperanza Farm Potosi Varietal San Juan Process Natural Altitude 1,800-2,000 masl Harvest January - April I got it from my local shop. It's got a really nice sultana smooth taste. Currently brewing it in a Aeropress 1:15 and diluting up to around a 320g cup. Really enjoying it at cooler temps.

Crankhouse, Cordillera de Fuego, anaerobic natural Caturra & Catuai - Initially hesitant & bracing myself due to the pungent, farmyard aroma off the beans, but absolutely delivers in every aspect on the flavour in cup. Complex, good perception of sweetness. Delicious! Like a coffee equivalent to mulled wine. I'm not big fan of naturals, nor Cost a Ricans generally, but I love this. 13\.6g ground at 32 on Wilfa flat, V60 02 with can strainer, 40g every 40s (each pour taking about 13s), 1st 2 pours direct on to the coffee bed, last 3 via can strainer. Dry bed 3:15 for this brew.

Mikari AA (Washed) (Kenya) from Coffee by the Casuals - two ways. Moka Pot - really rich, lots of peach. Very smooth. Pre-boiled water and AP filter, but no 'bloom'. CCD - 18g + 300g - 32 on Niche. Still steeping, but based on brews this week, flavour is more balanced, not as in your face (as expected) - not much pineapple, but more acitidty alongside the peach.

What’s in your cup this morning ?

MWJB

LMSC Picking up the notes isn’t really the main issue (this will vary for a number of reasons), even though at least one of the notes should be detectable. The liking score (quartermaster’s hedonic scale, in use for 70 odd years) is just that, how much you like it, rather than, ‘does it taste like x,y,z.’, I often have coffees I really enjoy that don’t match the notes.

Really, what I’m getting at is the coffee is scored at 89, it is sweet, but only achieves a neutral (50%) score in the cup, with someone who likes coffee and should be getting something above a neutral score.

Not a criticism of you or of Smith St, as I have had the same from plenty of other roasters, maybe at least 1 bag from all roasters that I have tried. It just makes me wonder…

LMSC

MWJB Picking up the notes isn’t really the main issue

Exactly! I have not factored the notes to score the cup. That’s why I wrote I don’t mind if I can’t pick the notes; because, as you correctly stated, it is about how much we like / enjoy the coffee.

I am pleased you take time to comment, which aims to help us access what went right, wrong and what needs to be done to improve the likability of the coffee we brew.

I do wonder why this coffee seen so sweet with a very good cup score gives me a neutral view. I have had time to review my logs.

4 of the 7 bags from SS are Anaerobically processed. Except this (Dora Mendez) bag, I have managed to trace one or two note(s) written on the tin on 3 of them; two were very nice, Dora was neutral and Chazez, which I opened a couple of days ago is above neutral (decent as black, but very nice as a flat white).
Perhaps, I have started felling that all bags taste similar, given I that I have had too many from them. If correct, this doesn’t do justice for the coffee.

In short, I don’t have an answer to why? 😊

InfamousTuba

LMSC

Have you tried cupping it? It might not be the best way to enjoy it but it could help you see if there is anything wrong with the roast. It could be a problem with the roast or maybe the coffee didn’t perform as well as the sample they got. We have had lots with high scores that arrive and maybe aren’t as good as the scores suggest

LMSC

InfamousTuba Have you tried cupping it?

Never tried cupping! It is a good idea. I need to watch a few on the how before I try myself. Thx

Cuprajake

Must admit I’m losing intrest in the really bright stuff, some are so prominent.

LMSC

Cuprajake losing intrest in the really bright stuff, some are so prominent.

Hmm. Did you feel the same when you had the Bianca. I think Denis had a view that grinders with bigger burr sets are likely to require lower temp on the Evo. What sort of temps do you set for the light/medium light stuffs?

He gave something like the following, which you may try.

Dark 90-92/98-100
Medium Dark - 2C < Dark
Medium 2C < dark
Medium Light - 3C < dark
Light - 4C < dark

MWJB

LMSC Never tried cupping! It is a good idea. I need to watch a few on the how before I try myself. Thx

This won’t be as easy as anticipated, not many seem to follow the same protocol, I have never had any roaster give me a good idea as to what grind they use. Break at 3-5 min and start tasting at 8-10min will usually result in a low extraction and a very different result to V60. It’s practical as a diagnostic, when comparing multiple samples and looking for defects, but it’s not going to be better than your typical, dialled in brew method.

Cuprajake

Umm tend to stick around the 91/98 mark

I remember his stuff, but always forget to mess with the machine

LMSC

Cuprajake forget to mess with the machine

Please experiment. You have a great set up. You can figure out what works the best for you. 😊

Systemic

Cuprajake Umm tend to stick around the 91/98 mark

Same here - currently, 91.5/99

Cuprajake

So like 86/92? For light???

LMSC

Cuprajake He was more like 8C between them. @Systemic drinks light. Don’t know what his readings are. He can advise you.

LMSC

MWJB It’s practical as a diagnostic, when comparing multiple samples and looking for defects, but it’s not going to be better than your typical, dialled in brew method.

I don’t understand how could the result be significantly different to V60 for an example? I don’t know tbh. The only way is make two cups using identical parameters and check out.

MWJB never had any roaster give me a good idea as to what grind they use

I was about to ask! Glad you mentioned.

@LeefromFoundryCR @CrownandCanvas - could you advise please?

LeefromFoundryCR

MWJB I have never had any roaster give me a good idea as to what grind they use

FWIW - we use a grind size that is slightly finer than we would typically use in something like a Wilfa Classic drip brewer which is brewing coffee around 1.3% TDS. On the EK43, that is around 11 for the Wilfa and we would use 10 for cupping. We keep it simple, 10g coffee, 180g water. That’s because the bowls me us hold that much water and so we don’t measure, we just fill them up quick. Break the crust at 3 mins, remove, leave to brew for 8-10 mins.

Cupping has to be quick in our context, but you could be more precise at home.

MWJB

LMSC I don’t understand how could the result be significantly different to V60 for an example?

For the same brew ratio, the V60 will be significantly stronger, the V60 will have way less non-dissolved solids which coat the tongue and detrimentally affect the ability to detect flavours. You will have to stop drinking the cupped coffee long before you get the last of the liquid, whereas you can drink every drop that lands in the cup with V60. From start to finish of brewing you will get your V60 extracted to target in less than 5 minutes, the cupped coffee will still be developing in flavour for 10s of minutes.

If your Clevers and V60s are similar in preference, then much the same holds true for long steep Clever vs cupping, except for brew time.

Maybe revisit this thread: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/876-cupping/33

LMSC

MWJB Hmm. So, a comparison of these two doesn’t help, given the strength of the brew. Thanks for the link; I will read that post and revert. Thx mate.

LMSC

LeefromFoundryCR something like a Wilfa Classic drip brewer

Thx Lee! As a reference, to those who don’t use that brewer, would it be more like a coarse grind for V60 or are we looking at a coarse espresso grind please ?

MWJB

LeefromFoundryCR On the EK43, that is around 11 for the Wilfa and we would use 10 for cupping.

So is this just 1 mark off the coarsest setting (11)?

LeefromFoundryCR

LMSC It’s actually pretty close to where we often end up for a 01 V60 when brewing a typical 250g water recipe.

Systemic

Bean tasting notes are arrived at via cupping which is an immersion process akin to cafetiere. It’s not surprising that there will be significant differences across different brewing methods and via espresso.

Also, extraction yield (EY) is crucial to hitting the subleter notes. If I am unsure I will use a refractometer to adjust EY to between 19-20% which impacts on body/mouthfeel but lets the flavours come through. If you don’t have access to a refractometer and you find the coffee flavours muddled, quicken the extraction (brew method) by coarsening the grind.

I alternate between V60 and Chemex for pour over - moving from one to the other when my taste buds get jaded. Chemex papers are the thickest out there so retain more of the beans’ oils which means less mouthfeel giving delicate taste notes to come through.

LMSC

Systemic If you don’t have access to a refractometer and you find the coffee flavours muddled, quicken the extraction (brew method) by coarsening the grind.

Thank you! I brew V60 and Clever (long steep).

It is situations like this, where a coffee is described as very sweet with such a high cup score, I miss not having the refractometer to see what I am getting! 😊

The thing is this (Dora Mendez) requires a very fine grind size to a level, I have never ground for espresso - almost closer to Turkish size.

As I wrote earlier, the coffee to me just taste neutral across the brew methods. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I usually grind a lot coarser for V60; I use 66g/l for 257g water (17g powder), to see a dry bed in 4:40 mins using MWJB’s method. May be, I could drop to 60g/l or go coarser further to see if the cup improves. It’s a hand grinder btw.

Systemic

Should have mentioned that grinder used plays a pivotal role. My guess is cupping notes on bean bags are produced using big flat burrs which can pick out subtler notes more easily.

My brew ratios are all in the region of 30-31grm/1ltr.

The other big variable is temp at which pour over is made. Lighter roasts give up their solubles less easily so a higher temp assists the process. But higher tems can also prove detrimental to volatile elements. I think Hoffman recommends using water just off boiling as, by the time it hits the puck for the initial steep, it has lost a lot of temp and is down to around 91c in my experience. Ideally, for lighter roasts temp in the brewer should be around 90-92c IMO.

LMSC

Systemic Agree, grinder is the key here.

We do need an electric grinder at home, preferably flat. That’s on top of my list for next year. My family will be more inclined to start using the machine. :-)

For lighter stuffs, my average temp on Evo is about 91.5/97.5 in the 91/93 range on the group and 97/99 on the boiler. For pour overs, the water is always off boiling.

Thx

MWJB

Systemic My brew ratios are all in the region of 30-31grm/1ltr.

Do you mean 30-31g to 500ml?

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