ascanio1 Which one makes the closest iteration to a filter coffee?

The answer is “none”. B2C machines are designed to produce something ‘close’ to espresso, not to filter. We all appreciate your reasons and limitations, but there is no getting around that point.

The fundamental difference is not just that a B2C uses pressure vs. gravity/diffusion. Dosing and extraction timing are hugely different; we may end up with a similar % extraction from the coffee bean, but the ratio of coffee to water is not the same, and adding more water to the extracted brew after brewing is not the same. I don’t know if you have seen the Scott Rao video above - which is made on something which allows a degree of control that no B2C ‘end-user oriented’ machine is able to provide - but the interesting thing for me is that it still ends up as an Americano of sort.

      DavecUK Thank you. Now I am focusing on my quest to find which B2C brews the closest filter like coffee as the other coffee maker qualities and specificities are not so important: my wife is not fussy about coffee.

        CoyoteOldMan Thank you. This is probably the most helpful answer which suggests that all the above B2C will make the same, bad, approximation to a filter coffee and, therefore, I can buy the cheapest one, even though, within reason, cost is not a factor.

            ascanio1 all the above B2C will make the same, bad, approximation to a filter coffee and, therefore, I can buy the cheapest one,

            Or, since they will all be equally inadequate at producing a filter-like brew, depending on how large the ‘debt’ is, you may want to choose one that makes the most decent milk drink for your wife. You’ll be having an Americano anyway… 😉

                This might be sacrilegious to suggest and I haven’t read the thread in detail but could you not just use pre-ground coffee in a Technivorm?

                I’d be interested to see if there’s a marked difference in flavour quality in B2C coffee vs pre-ground in a decent filter machine?

                We had a B2C machine on each floor at the last agency I worked at (not sure on model, was massive and had a touchscreen) and it was pretty terrible. I never dared to use the milk functions as the thought of the old milk in the plumbing put me off. I’d have taken pre-ground filter every time. And in fact I did, with a V60 at my desk.

                Edit: I see you need to be able to make milk-drinks on demand also. I guess B2C is the only way!

                CoyoteOldMan Thank you as your advice is, once more, useful. Since all B2C have the same extraction/temp/etc for their “filter” approximation I will focus on the best cappuccino and caffé’latte. I watched the videos recommended and it seems that the De Longhi offers the best cappuccino so, I presume, also the best caffé’latte.

                  In a different forum was recommended that I look at the new Nespresso Next, in its various iterations, suggesting that it makes a good approximation to filter coffee, when used in the “carafe” mode (my choice of word, taken from the icon in the image).

                  I doubt that my wife will agree to this Nespresso as it does not make coffee based milk drinks so the whole exercise may be pointless but, does this Nespresso Next (or other B2C) make coffee without using pressure and steam?

                    ascanio1 The problem is you want latte and cappa, which typically require espresso as a base, but a machine that makes filter coffee without pressure. Below is a machine that will automatically grind and brew, it’s relatively inexpensive as well and doesn’t commit you to pods. Melitta know what they are doing with filter stuff.

                    https://www.melitta.co.uk/products/coffee-machines/filter-coffee-machines/aromafresh-filter-coffee-machine-with-grinder-metallic-grey-special-colour-edition/

                    The problem is no one makes them with frothers, because of the logical exclusion of steamed milk into filtered coffee. This would then mean a separate milk frother which would take up counter space.

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                        DavecUK Thank you Dave. The real problem is that I am married 🤣 jokes apart, of course you are correct.

                        My wife, today, uses filter coffee (⅔ or ¾) and adds milk (⅓ or ¼). Of course she’s not happy with this solution, and would much rather have an all-in-one machine that brews an espresso base for her caffé’latte. I also think that she is going to enjoy the cappuccino.

                        The Melitta that you recommend seems wonderful for my preferences but, alas, we are going with my wife’s preferences 🤷🏻‍♂️

                          I am not sure you will find what you want…although i seem to remember an all in one espresso machine and filter maker. Sort of like a sage with a filter machine tacked on the side.

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                            ascanio1 I’ve looked around a bit. There are some, but they seem all really low quality (as in: £200-300 range for a ‘combined’ machine, sometimes including a smasher erm, grinder). De Longhi and Magimix are the two brands that keep coming up.

                              Thank you to everyone for your contributions.

                              It seems that it is irrelevant which B2C I will buy for my filter coffee. I have therefore shortlisted these:
                              Jura E8
                              De’Longhi Prima Donna Elite
                              Sage Oracle Touch

                              I will appreciate comments based on these three for other coffees as filter will not be an option. Thank you.

                                Whatever you do decide to go for, you may want to hold out until the Black Friday sales - still about 2 months away, but some places do start their sales earlier.

                                ascanio1 My opinion - unfortunately based on third party reviews and the thread here, rather than any direct experience:

                                1. If Dave says to avoid the Jura, avoid the Jura.

                                2. My perceived pluses of the Sage:

                                  • Quality of coffee and steam

                                  • Finely-adjustable grinder

                                  • Automatic steam functions

                                  • Well made - probably more reliable (but I have no evidence)

                                  • Fast and quiet (vs. the DeLonghi)

                                3. Sage cons:

                                  • VERY expensive

                                  • Requires manual moving and emptying of the portafilter

                                  • Footprint

                                  • More regular maintenance

                                If it were my money, I’d go for the Sage, but it is twice or more than twice the cost, and your wife may not be happy with the not totally automated ‘coffee transfer’. Plus… I haven’t even seen either machine, never mind used them for a while. The only review from someone whom I respect on ‘coffee matters’ is for the Sage; it doesn’t mean the DeLonghi is a bad machine, just that it has no reviews.

                                  I’m fairly sure the Sage Oracle will make better coffee, but this comes at the expense of being a more manual machine. I suppose it comes down to how much the user / his girlfriend want to do when it comes to making coffee. If it’s a case of just pressing a button, the Sage isn’t the right machine.

                                  I agree with Dave on the Jura. My brother has it and the coffee wasn’t a patch on my Sage Bambino Plus when I had coffee from it.

                                  My in-laws have the Sage Oracle, and it’s a decent machine and easy to use. It autotamps the coffee to a set level (about 21g for the double basket), then you just move it across and press the double button and it gives a set time of water. Milk steaming is as easy as stick the wand in and hit go.

                                  The only tweaking really required is adjusting the grind size if it comes out too fast or slow. In my opinion the coffee out is much better than even the very expensive bean to cup machines we have at work.

                                  If you go down the espresso rabbit hole you can do everything manually, but in auto mode it’s very easy.