We have been brewing Goat’s Ethiopian Sidemo medium-dark roasts for the last two days. 20g power : 225g of water : \~170g - 172g into the cup. We use the paper filter and swiss gold, which ensure a clean cup every time. The grind size was at the lower-end of the espresso range. We drink this as a black coffee. This morning, we brewed a couple of times. For the first cup, we poured 75% water in first, added the coffee, did a quick stir, added the remaining 25% water in a quick circle, covered and brewed for 30 mins. There was no change in the second cup except that we added all the water in first. Both cups were light and sweet marked with fruity citrus-cum-lemon grass for us. We can’t pick both of them apart except the first cup had a tiny bitter taste; despite the tiny bitter notes, the first cup was also excellent. One thing, which I had learnt from Mark @"MWJB"#139 was the brews can’t possibly give an over-extracted coffee. Therefore, the tad bitter note might have been the result of adding a quarter of the water after sinking the crust. In short, we definitely prefer the second cup.

I keep on playing with brewed, but feel I never really get the most from it somehow. I have a Clever, a cafetière, a Moka pot, a Trinity One https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trinity-Coffee-Company-TCC0002-Brewer/dp/B077YDZ6X3 although mine was the original Kickstarter one which was in walnut and a lot more expensive! At some point, I must get to grips with this system!

Don't stir - this can cause bitterness without causing over extraction. (Guess where/ who I learned that from!) For my CCD I pour most of the water in first, then add the coffee (32 on Niche), then wet all the coffee with the remaining water. I then cover and leave for 30mins - 1hr 30mins (longest I can get away with depending on size of brew and it be a decent temp to drink in a pre-heated cup.)

@"LMSC"#p1100 On a side note, I've just received an email from Clumsy Goat asking about my experience with these beans, just wondered if you had too. I told them I enjoyed the beans but was a little disappointed that the "roasted on" date was hidden in the batch number and that they were over a month old when I received them. There are plenty of roasters out there who do better so I would have to think twice before placing another order with them!

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p1110 You are correct; we should not stir. Thx. My bad. I should have been careful with my choice of words. Stirring is not a correct expression; I meant, just sinking / wetting the coffee. I do not bother dissolving clumps. It’s a long brew anyway. @"Flat_Eric"#p1111 No. we have not received any emails. They might not as we have had a few email exchanges. We thanked their frankness / openness re-the roast date and also shown a deep appreciation of their willingness to refund or send replacements. We firmly rejected their generosity as it’s not fair and appropriate to take advantage of their kindness. We didn’t like the Peru for reasons set out earlier and the Ethiopian is very good. We will move on once the current bag is exhausted. @"dfk41"#p1105 I find clever brewing is easier than any other brews - Aero Press, French Press and Indian filter,… With a SwissGold on top of the paper filter, we can do as fine as possible until we get silts into the cup. 😊

@"LMSC"#p1114 I put the paper filter inside the Swiss Gold! Please explain

@"dfk41"#p1115 I put the paper filter in the Clever first, the SwissGold on top, fill with water right off the boil and drain it just before I am ready to brew.

@"dfk41"#p1115 The SwissGold on top lets the liquid run off and around the coffee bed, the paper catches the finer particles, which will give us a cleaner cup. The SwissGold alone will result in a cup of mud :-) I learnt these from Mark.

@"LMSC"#p1117 Well, thats what I will try, next time I dust it off! Compared to an espresso shot, what grind lever would you aim for matey?

@"dfk41"#p1119 Earlier, I had started at the upper end of the espresso grind; I then realised we can grind really finer and go towards the lower end. The JX pro espresso range is 1.2-1.6. On my JX pro, my current brew setting is at 1.3 rotations within my preferred 1.3-1.4 range for the brews. The silts start kicking-in mostly below 1.3 for me. My espresso typical start point for a new bag of beans is at 1.4; I settle a few clicks plus or minus with a few shots. The clever, using a combo of paper filter and SwissGold, really surprised me how fine we can go. One tip, while brewing, I wrap the clever with something like the image below. It keeps the brew warmer at around \~56C. https://imgur.com/a/wC9YbzC

@"LMSC"#16 - Your CCD wrapping is funkier than mine! I also put a cork trivet top and bottom. I do think the one on top helps a little bit. I also made a template for a proper wrap, but then life happened. If I am doing a long steep I am at 32 on the Niche, which is a long way north of espresso. I find people's different grind settings fascinating. Would like to do a side-by-side one day, taste the difference. I find the CCD the simplest in a comparison between aeropress and french press, although I don't have an insulated press. Do you find the swiss gold makes a marked difference over just a paper filter? I have not got one yet, but if there are gains to be had in the cup, I'll put it on the list!

Clever brew

LMSC

Brewed the Foundry Roasters Columbian Jairo Arcila.

20g, 232g of water (a few grams more than intended), espresso grind and steeped for 35.34 mins. Added a ⅔ water first, powder and a ⅓ water to sink crust. Poured on a pre-heated cup.

Despite a little bit of silt, the coffee was very nice. I had mild acidity, orange sweetness and prominent cherry balsam taste. The floral presence was mild more at the back of the tongue. I will grind coarser for the next cup.

I actually thought the clever gave me a far better cup than V60 for this bag. The cup was a lot cleaner and smoother. One reason could be the degree of agitation of the bed as hot water is poured in circles and at the centre. A dispersion screen might reduce the agitation on V60.

This bag is purely meant for filter and won’t work well with milk.

Overall, I think this is a very good coffee from a good roaster but not a standout bag, given the price tag of £15 for 250g.

hthec

Hey clever users. anyone use it for camping/travel? I’m about to get one. Is there any significant difference in size and packability between the small and large. I’m thinking I would default to the large otherwise

PortafilterProcrastinator

hthec I don’t, no. I can’t comment on the difference in size, but the large one just fits inside a 1kg airscape, so at its widest point must be nearly 8″ across.

The concern I’d have is heat loss. How will you stop it cooling down too quickly if you’re outdoors.

hthec

PortafilterProcrastinator thanks, that’s really big. Guess I’ll get the small. Most of the time I’ll be brewing in a hotel or airbnb so it shouldn’t be a problem I think. Though I sort of recall @LMSC making a sort of blanket for it to steep in or something. Wouldn’t go that far though. I value the simplicity in this case

LMSC

hthec Yes, I use a blanket to wrap the clever at home. I steep for 30 mins at least. It prevents a heat loss.

hthec I value the simplicity in this case

We don’t carry any coffee kit while travelling. We go without coffee than drinking any thing from the high street coffee shops. :-)

PortafilterProcrastinator

hthec I use three tea towels and two cork trivets! One TT folded, wrapped round and tucked in the handles. One trivet underneath. One on top of the lid. Then two TTs over the top of the lot.

I steep for 45mins to 1hr generally. I seem to remember the trivet on the top made a noticeable difference to temp at the end, but I’ve been doing it so long who knows.

LMSC

@MWJB Thanks for your Clever Short Steep experiments. I tried this this afternoon. Unfortunately, I had to use the disappointing CastIron’s Mandela.

I didn’t deviate from your recommendations. 24g coarse grind, which is the same grind size as my V60. Poured 230.8g of hot water, powder in and steeped for 1:45 mins. I sunk the crust at 1:45, and poured into a pre-heated cup at 2:00 mins. It drained at 2:12 mins.

I also prepared a V60 at 65.5g/l

Result:

The cup was cleaner and sweeter; I could not differentiate the coffee from clever and v60. If I were to pick, I would perhaps pick the clever as it was a little sweeter than V60.

Thoughts

The workflow is relatively easier than v60 as there are no 30s pours! Hence, it is a little convenient.
Obviously more powder - 62.76% - for less liquid :-)

Question :

I think you posted break at 1:45.

Are you suggesting sinking the crust at 1:45 to pour at 2:00 please?

In closing, a big thank you! 🙏🏽

MWJB

LMSC Question :

I think you posted break at 1:45.

Are you suggesting sinking the crust at 1:45 to pour at 2:00 please?

In closing, a big thank you! 🙏🏽

I break 15s before draw down, depending on grind, I’d tweak time in the first instance, but I’d normally be breaking at 1:30 & place on cup at 1:45.

You’re most welcome, glad to be able to assist. :-)

LMSC

MWJB I’d normally be breaking at 1:30 & place on cup at 1:45.

What kind of extraction you have been getting between drain at 1:45 and 2:00 please?

MWJB

LMSC Well there’s a couple of calculations depending on immersion vs drip, but in terms comparable to V60/drip, 11-13% (16-18% immersion).

LMSC

MWJB Do we need the SwissGold for Clever short brew - 1:45-2:00 mins drain time? The grind size is the same as V60! I am thinking we can try losing it. :-)

MWJB

LMSC Yeah, sure, I don’t use a permanent filter for smaller, short brews.

LMSC

MWJB The short brew - 230g water, 24g, and cup at 2:00 was fine. No silts. I don’t have to wash the SwissGold! 😃 Thx

LMSC

Foundry Columbia Luis Anibal EF Washed - medium light

The usual routine using 240g water (ended up with 15g more than intended), 20g espresso grind size coffee, and a total steep time of 35.45 mins.

Another clean and sweet coffee; gentle mango flavour and acidity throughout; and, toffee / honey comb — aroma, at the finish and after taste. There was a mild bitterness (enjoyable), which I can liken it to the honeycomb. I never got this in espresso as the espresso flavours were mango and clove. I will grind a few clicks coarser and see if I can loosen the bitterness. I don’t think it will as I think it is a part of the flavour.

It’s another good coffee from them, although it doesn’t jump out. As I wrote before, it won’t cut with milk.

Pompeyexile

Whe I was working I invested in a Thinsulate beany hat to cover my Clever Dripper to keep the brew warm… works a treat.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Pompeyexile Great idea.

I got as far as making a template for a CCD jacket and then never got around to using it. This is a much easier approach!

I am yet to find a solution for extra large brews using size 6 papers and the wicking that occurs. Clingfilm is as far as I’ve got.

LMSC

PortafilterProcrastinator am yet to find a solution for extra large brews using size 6 papers

Use a large blanket. The below is a small size. Perfect and retains the temperature well - about 55C-58C after 30-35 mins steep time. Nevertheless, you drain on a pre-heated cup.

Of course, Pompeyexile’s solution is very good.

PortafilterProcrastinator

LMSC I use tea towels at the moment, but if a size 6 filter sticks out the top then the water wicks away during the steep.

It isn’t a common problem, only when I’m trying to squeeze the max possible brew size into the CCD.

LMSC

Caste Iron Guatamela washed - medium light / medium

The grind is the espresso size, which is too fine for this bag as bitterness has seeped in. The bitterness is mild, which I can lose backing up to the right-side of the grind.

225g of all water in first and 20g of powder and seeped for 1 hour. I wrapped it with the Primark blanket. I was surprised the coffee was quite warm at 59C even after an hour.

It is a very nice coffee ; had fruity acidity / flavours like Nectarine / Peach. It was sweet and could pick up a bit of chocolate flavour / after taste. The cup was very clean and there were no silts.

There were no honeysuckle (think jasmine and honey) aroma after 1 hour of steeping :-)

Using MWJB’s scoring, I would give this 6. It looses a couple of points for reasons of brew malfunctions - slight bitterness and not able to sink the crusts quickly. The powders were fluffier and floating a lot and it wasn’t easy to sink the crust as I had always done in the past for similar grind settings.

I will grind coarser the next time. It is certainly a V60 candidate.

MWJB

LMSC 6 (like a little) seems a bit harsh if it was “very nice”?

LMSC

MWJB 6 (like a little) seems a bit harsh

Indeed! It’s not fair, but I took away 2 for reasons mentioned above. Despite those two negatives, I did like the coffee. Hopefully, the next clever brew would fix the issues.

Btw, are Gautemalan beans not as dense as coffee from, for example Costs Rica (less soluble? ). It was really fluffier and most of it floated in the hot water.

Of course, variations in beans density with roast level, grind size (mass vs surface area of the grounds), age (~3 weeks old since roasted) and C02 can all make a difference.

The reason I ask is I do not remember any of the past brews seeing most of the grounds floating like this Gautemalan, although the grind sizes were almost similar!

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