We have been brewing Goat’s Ethiopian Sidemo medium-dark roasts for the last two days. 20g power : 225g of water : \~170g - 172g into the cup. We use the paper filter and swiss gold, which ensure a clean cup every time. The grind size was at the lower-end of the espresso range. We drink this as a black coffee. This morning, we brewed a couple of times. For the first cup, we poured 75% water in first, added the coffee, did a quick stir, added the remaining 25% water in a quick circle, covered and brewed for 30 mins. There was no change in the second cup except that we added all the water in first. Both cups were light and sweet marked with fruity citrus-cum-lemon grass for us. We can’t pick both of them apart except the first cup had a tiny bitter taste; despite the tiny bitter notes, the first cup was also excellent. One thing, which I had learnt from Mark @"MWJB"#139 was the brews can’t possibly give an over-extracted coffee. Therefore, the tad bitter note might have been the result of adding a quarter of the water after sinking the crust. In short, we definitely prefer the second cup.

I keep on playing with brewed, but feel I never really get the most from it somehow. I have a Clever, a cafetière, a Moka pot, a Trinity One https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trinity-Coffee-Company-TCC0002-Brewer/dp/B077YDZ6X3 although mine was the original Kickstarter one which was in walnut and a lot more expensive! At some point, I must get to grips with this system!

Don't stir - this can cause bitterness without causing over extraction. (Guess where/ who I learned that from!) For my CCD I pour most of the water in first, then add the coffee (32 on Niche), then wet all the coffee with the remaining water. I then cover and leave for 30mins - 1hr 30mins (longest I can get away with depending on size of brew and it be a decent temp to drink in a pre-heated cup.)

@"LMSC"#p1100 On a side note, I've just received an email from Clumsy Goat asking about my experience with these beans, just wondered if you had too. I told them I enjoyed the beans but was a little disappointed that the "roasted on" date was hidden in the batch number and that they were over a month old when I received them. There are plenty of roasters out there who do better so I would have to think twice before placing another order with them!

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p1110 You are correct; we should not stir. Thx. My bad. I should have been careful with my choice of words. Stirring is not a correct expression; I meant, just sinking / wetting the coffee. I do not bother dissolving clumps. It’s a long brew anyway. @"Flat_Eric"#p1111 No. we have not received any emails. They might not as we have had a few email exchanges. We thanked their frankness / openness re-the roast date and also shown a deep appreciation of their willingness to refund or send replacements. We firmly rejected their generosity as it’s not fair and appropriate to take advantage of their kindness. We didn’t like the Peru for reasons set out earlier and the Ethiopian is very good. We will move on once the current bag is exhausted. @"dfk41"#p1105 I find clever brewing is easier than any other brews - Aero Press, French Press and Indian filter,… With a SwissGold on top of the paper filter, we can do as fine as possible until we get silts into the cup. 😊

@"LMSC"#p1114 I put the paper filter inside the Swiss Gold! Please explain

@"dfk41"#p1115 I put the paper filter in the Clever first, the SwissGold on top, fill with water right off the boil and drain it just before I am ready to brew.

@"dfk41"#p1115 The SwissGold on top lets the liquid run off and around the coffee bed, the paper catches the finer particles, which will give us a cleaner cup. The SwissGold alone will result in a cup of mud :-) I learnt these from Mark.

@"LMSC"#p1117 Well, thats what I will try, next time I dust it off! Compared to an espresso shot, what grind lever would you aim for matey?

@"dfk41"#p1119 Earlier, I had started at the upper end of the espresso grind; I then realised we can grind really finer and go towards the lower end. The JX pro espresso range is 1.2-1.6. On my JX pro, my current brew setting is at 1.3 rotations within my preferred 1.3-1.4 range for the brews. The silts start kicking-in mostly below 1.3 for me. My espresso typical start point for a new bag of beans is at 1.4; I settle a few clicks plus or minus with a few shots. The clever, using a combo of paper filter and SwissGold, really surprised me how fine we can go. One tip, while brewing, I wrap the clever with something like the image below. It keeps the brew warmer at around \~56C. https://imgur.com/a/wC9YbzC

@"LMSC"#16 - Your CCD wrapping is funkier than mine! I also put a cork trivet top and bottom. I do think the one on top helps a little bit. I also made a template for a proper wrap, but then life happened. If I am doing a long steep I am at 32 on the Niche, which is a long way north of espresso. I find people's different grind settings fascinating. Would like to do a side-by-side one day, taste the difference. I find the CCD the simplest in a comparison between aeropress and french press, although I don't have an insulated press. Do you find the swiss gold makes a marked difference over just a paper filter? I have not got one yet, but if there are gains to be had in the cup, I'll put it on the list!

Clever brew

MWJB

Been experimenting with more ‘hybrid’ type brews with my small Clever.

Doing 2 small pours of twice the coffee weight, at 30s intervals, then at 1:00 add remaining water in about 30s and steep for 5:00, then draw down (about a minute). I have been getting the same extraction level as drip brews in the Clever (about 3:15 TBT) at the same grind & brew ratio.

Full immersion brews were needing a much finer grind and 20 min plus steeps to do this previously.

Grind is 12% at 400 Kruve, 17% 500 Kruve, 29% 600um ASTM/ISO. Same as I’d use for 1 mug V60, with 6 pours 20-30s part.

Doesn’t taste quite the same as drip, a bit tangier, but not necessarily worse, might try 4:00 til draw down.

LMSC

MWJB twice the coffee weight

What short of ratio is this please? Is it the same 13.8g powder and 200g water?

What were the comparable yields, if you had measured them please?

Thanks!

PortafilterProcrastinator

I can reply to posts again! Woo!

MWJB Sounds interesting, I’ll give it a go. Trying to get back into experimenting and enjoying different brew methods again, so this fits the bill well.

Always appreciate your musings Mark.

MWJB

Yes, typical pour over ratio range, 13.8g to 210g water.

Measured as drip. Honduras red catuai:
Hybrid steep 20.7%
Pour over with Drip Assist, bloom valve shut & 5 pours 30s intervals 20.6%

Colombia natural Castillo:
Hybrid steep 21%
Pour over with Drip Assist, bloom valve shut & 5 pours 30s intervals 21%

Earlier attempt at a coarser grind:
Colombia pink Bourbon
Hybrid steep 19.4%
Pour over with Drip Assist, bloom valve shut & 6 pours 30s intervals 19.4%

+/- 0.3%EY can be considered close enough for results to be ‘the same’.

LMSC

MWJB Interesting experiment potentially giving you the best of two worlds. Would this hybrid clever be the preferred route if you can address the tangy taste? Thx

MWJB

LMSC For me personally, no, but for others who might not have the patience/inclination to stand over the brewer, pouring throughout, it might be preferred.

MWJB

4:00 min for the hybrid Clever brew wasn’t a goer, a whole % less extraction, flat, generic, no acidity, or sweetness. The difference between that and 5:00 surprised me. Might try 6:00.

LMSC

MWJB I wonder if this experiment would lead you to 20 mins! 🤣

MWJB

LMSC Ha ha! It may yet do 😀 But it’s still good to be able to have reasonable extraction results at 5:00.

LMSC

MWJB That’s good to hear mate! Despite the joke, I do think you are likely to hit the sweet spot under 10 mins. Please keep us posted. When you do, kindly consider detailing the hybrid method once again. Thanks.

MWJB

LMSC checking back, my first 2 attempts at this were 20 & 10 min, both have notes to reduce steep time.

Currently the method is:
13.8g coffee ground at 13% 400 Kruve, or 17% 500 Kruve.
Pour 30g every 30s, each pour taking 10s
1:00 add remaining water to 210g, by 1:30.
Draw down at end of steep time.

LMSC

MWJB Interesting! Looking forward to where you hit the sweet spot. I had always wondered what if we were to brew your V60 style brewing on Clever? How would the extractions vary and the tastes differ ? Thx for experimenting!

MWJB

LMSC I’ve only done a couple of full percolation brews with the CCD 1 mug and Drip Assist, with the same coffees as V60 & Drip Assist, at the same grind.

Differences were:
CCD 1 pour in the centre valve shut, place on cup 5 in ring, 35g/30s intervals, 210g total.
V60 2 pours in centre, 3 in the ring 40g/40s, 200g total.
Extractions were ball-park with each other, so was the preference score but the V60 extracts to the same level with 10g less water (so is also a tad stronger). V60 seems to be the highest extracting pour over I have, but then you just adjust the pouring to get them to parity, extraction wise.

Obviously, there’s no point doing 5 to 6 timed pours with the hybrid CCD method above, as the well under the paper & above the valve in a CCD will be filled in a couple of pours, so from then on you’re immersion brewing.

LMSC

Brewed the same Crankhouse’s Colombian Winton Benitez on clever for breakfast - 20g, 225g water and 45 mins steep using espresso grind.

Very nice; the cup gave similar taste profiles like Americano and V60. I am not sure how many will like this coffee though! It reminds me of Foundry’s Amaya. The Winton is far more expensive than Amaya.

MWJB

LMSC I’m enjoying it, delicate though, almost in Gesha territory.

LMSC

MWJB almost in Gesha territory.

Awesome!

No idea what Gesha is!

What flavours and aromas are coming through please? There is an intense (fermented like) nice aroma that I get across the regimes! I can’t quite understand what it is.

I served it as a white Americano ( 2 tbsp of milk) for my wife this am. She loved the aroma and flavour.

Thx

MWJB

LMSC I don’t generally get much aroma from brewed coffee, but sweeter, light citrus mainly, jasmine always strikes me as integrated in the mouthfeel/texture, more than a flavour of the soluble content.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC No idea what Gesha is!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha_(coffee)

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam So nice of you MRS! 🙏🏽

Edit :

That’s so expensive.

MWJB

LMSC The really ‘good’ ones taste of wet air! 😁

LMSC

MWJB ah. Wet air! That’s what the roasters’ have been omitting this vital information all these years! 😂

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