I’d like to compile a list and discuss machines which warm up fast. With the ever increasing electricity prices, this becomes a good feature, as leaving the machine on all day might not be economical in certain cases. So, here we go: Decent Espresso machine, 5 minutes; Sage Dual Boiler, users reporting heat up time in less than 10 minutes; La Pavoni Europiccola and Porfessional, around 8 minutes; Vesuvius Evo Leva, 15 minutes, with dedicated group heat cartridge; Lelit machines, such as the Bianca and the Elizabeth, which heat up in approx. 17 minutes and 19 minutes respectively, due to overheating the brew boiler to 130C for a few minutes at start up. See https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1040-lelit-bianca-or-profitec-700/81

Question to @"DavecUK"#1 and users: Lelit MaraX, as it also has the overheating technique at the start, hearing the water to 140C? Isn’t that ready in 15 minutes? If so, why not? MaraX review says it heats up in 24 minutes, that’s 40% slower than the Bianca. What about just box standard HX machines? If they operate at around 126C anyway, how come those machines don’t heat up as fast as the Bianca?

A little unconventional list - But hey, we do get requests like this like one recent user Fastest ready time Graef 2 mins PS: Let me know if you would rather like them listed here than provided as URLs please!

@"LMSC"#p27177 - I think it would be best if the machines we list here are known to us or our members had experience with, rather than unverified claims on the wider internet.

4 min 30 seconds for the Decent. And all sorts of energy saving options available at a click or two on the tablet. No big boiler to keep hot either so it's a very energy efficient option.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#51 Is the topic/your question here more to do with ‘energy saving’ than ‘warm up time’ though? If not, then might be an opportunity to also discuss here. It comes down to ‘cost of warm up’ vs ‘cost to keep on once warmed up’ then. I know it’s been touched on here in other threads but I would tend to agree with the sentiment that anything that is on is using energy and so it must make sense to only turns things on when needed. There is a compromise however if it costs as much to warm up as to keep on for, say, 4 hours and if someone turns off and back on to heat up more than three times a day would it be more economical to leave on. I know when I had the Elizabeth it cost buttons due to its efficiency and small boiler sizes, and as @"DavecUK"#1 stated in his review it ‘sips’ electricity once on.

@"tompoland"#p27180 - added to the OP, rounded up to the nearest minute, thank you! @"JahLaza"#p27183 - in all honesty, I’m more interested on the second post 😊

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p27176 Lelit MaraX, as it also has the overheating technique at the start, hearing the water to 140C? Isn’t that ready in 15 minutes? If so, why not? MaraX review says it heats up in 24 minutes, that’s 40% slower than the Bianca. Assuming the MaraX group is largely the same as the Bianca, the answer is: \- MaraX single boiler, capacity 1.8 l, 1400 W element = 778 W/l \- Bianca double boiler, brew boiler capacity 0.8 l, 1000 W element = 1250 W/l The group is heated by the (brew) boiler water, not directly, so that's what matters (and an efficient thermosyphon). To the second question ("generic" HX machine) - I suspect much the same stuff is in play, and they generally have large(ish) boilers and groups, both to provide steam capacity *and* some temperature stability.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p27178 I get what we are saying as we can vouch for it. But, most of these machines are not unknown, although we don’t use them. These machines do interest the users (of course, not us). I therefore think, there is a place for these - however cannot be validated by us! It’s up to you if would like to add them to the unverified list or otherwise! 😊

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p27176 Lelit MaraX, as it also has the overheating technique at the start, hearing the water to 140C? Isn’t that ready in 15 minutes? If so, why not? MaraX review says it heats up in 24 minutes, that’s 40% slower than the Bianca. > @"CoyoteOldMan"#p27185 Assuming the MaraX group is largely the same as the Bianca, the answer is: > > - MaraX single boiler, capacity 1.8 l, 1400 W element = 778 W/l > - Bianca double boiler, brew boiler capacity 0.8 l, 1000 W element = 1250 W/l Very interesting. On a side point, there might be a distinction to be made between machines that overheat and then need to cool to settle in the correct temperature (such as the Lelits) and machines that just heat up. A few minutes prior to being ready, the former will be **too hot**, so potentially could be cooled down with a flush and used sooner, while the latter would be **too cold** and nothing could be done about that. I have not done this much, but I do remember an occasion that I had to go out and wanted to pull a shot on Mara X a few minutes before the full 24 minute heat-up cycle and the machine settling on the ready-to-brew pressure/temp. I did a quick flush and the shot came out just fine as far as I remember. Here is a reminder of how the head-up cycle works on Mara X in a short time-lapse video (unfortunately I didn't include a watch, but my experience is that it indeed takes 24 minutes to complete the cycle): https://youtube.com/shorts/5DOTP7owHZg

If people have energy monitoring sockets then the best route would be to measure the power used to get to warm up, as faster isn't always lowest energy. On the topic of energy to warm up vs keep warm, it will always be cheaper to turn off, let it cool down and then heat up again. All machines lose heat and the hotter something is the higher the heat loss, because the difference between the coffee machine and ambient temperature is higher. Based on this keeping something hot always users more energy. If you turn it off and then back on a couple of hours later it won't be as cold anyway, so won't use as much energy as heating from completely cold.

Fast warm up machines

Rob666

DavecUK a tea towel wrapped around the group,

I always do this! :)

Dusk

An espresso machine cosy?

Doram

DavecUK If it’s about a energy saving when switched on, a tea towel wrapped around the group, especially underneath, makes a huge difference in power consumption.

But then it won’t heat the kitchen! You can’t have it all. ;-)

hornbyben

I tested my modified Silvia earlier, and it took around 15 minutes to warm up and used 60Wh of electricity [1.6p at my current rate].

It’s quite easy on my machine as it keeps track of the power use on the display, and also beeps when it’s up to temp (based on the pid reaching steady state)

DavecUK

hornbyben I’ve not seen a machine that displays it’s own power usage before…good idea.

hornbyben

DavecUK it’s not perfect as it is calculated from the time the pid has been powered, the element power and voltage. It’ll therefore not measure power from the pump, or when steaming (as the stream switch bypasses the pid controlled circuit). It should be fairly accurate for heating up though.

This morning it was on for about an hour before I made a coffee and this used 70 Wh to heat up and hold temp. It does automatically drop to 80⁰C after 17 mins (just above the longest I’ve ever seen it take to heart up) though, as this saves a bit of power and is always back up to temp in the time it takes to prep the portafilter.

CoyoteOldMan

hornbyben For heating up it should be definitely quite an accurate estimate - most of the energy will go in powering the element.

I’m monitoring overall consumption, as the monitor is in the smart plug to which the machine is connected. I’m averaging just under 1.2 kWh/day with 4-6 double shots, most as milk drinks. The 70 Wh you are getting are incredibly low from my perspective (though obviously the boiler and group in the ~~Gaggia~~ Silvia are much smaller/lighter than the Evo’s two plus the 8 kgs of the spring and group).

(sorry - got confused on the machine!)

hornbyben

CoyoteOldMan Indeed. I think the Silvia probably is an energy efficient solution, as it’s only 300ml you’re heating up, and for steaming your only heating that 300ml by about 30⁰C, as it’s already at brewing temp.

I know a lot of people don’t like single boilers, and I did a lot of mods to mine, but for me it’s a perfect solution. Good control, pressure profiling, low energy use and easy to maintain.

james65477564

CoyoteOldMan My bianca averages 1.6kWh per day. I normally have it set to switch off after 40mins but now that solar is dropping off I will shorten it to 20 and see if that works acceptably. Goal is to get <1kWh per day.

DavecUK

hornbyben I’m using my single boiler Puristika at the moment, have been for 6 weeks.

hornbyben

DavecUK How do you find it versus the other options you have on the bench?

hthec

DavecUK Puristika has no steam though, does it?

DavecUK

hornbyben it’s fine, small and compact, with a very visible and easy to acess water tank, which is handy ar the moment.

It produces good shots, and the externally adjustable expansion valve is handy.. it’s no frills, which is just what I need at the moment.

MediumRoastSteam

hthec Puristika has no steam though, does it?

Correct. It does not have steam or hot water tap.

hornbyben

DavecUK it certainly looks like a nice little machine for those that don’t drink milk drinks

MediumRoastSteam

Forget the Nurri or the Evo…

It only heats the amount of water it needs to heat, so it’s always ready. That’s amazing.

https://manument.com/en/faq

@tompoland - one for your bench? 😉

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam oh my goodness. Extraordinary.

Pass 🤑

Cuprajake

And quite the bargain..

dndrich

Very interesting tech. Now one comment had to do with temperature stability. I noticed that the standard portafilter is not heated prior to pulling the shot. Would that not affect the outcome? I always thought one of the reasons the portafilters are so heavy is so that hot piece of metal keeps the temperature in the puck. Now I use a naked portafilter, and he seemed to imply that temperature stability is easier there since the basket is really just suspended. Thoughts here?

MediumRoastSteam

dndrich - give it a go at your next coffee. I did it last week and was surprised.

It’s definitely an issue with spouted PF, as the liquid drips into the PF and then follows the path of the spout. If that’s not hot, your coffee will be colder in the cup. In my opinion, with a naked PF it doesn’t change matters much. IMMV.

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam agree, it’s about the temperature being stable during extraction and having the basket hot so it doesn’t drop the temperature during extraction. Cooling post extraction e.g. passing through the spouts or into the cup, actually reveals more flavors. But on a cold day that may not be your preference.

Cuprajake

I personally don’t heat the pf

dndrich

Cuprajake I leave the portafilter in the machine during warm up. That heats it.

delta76

dndrich think it is quite popular tip. I do that and run a few empty shot through my naked pf to make sure group head is clean (of coffee ground)

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