@"DavecUK"#1 [asked if I could make a video of my workflow making espresso with the 9Barista](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1073-espresso-dosing-blend-vs-single-origin/26). I don't make videos very often, but here you go. I'd like to mention that I'm doing things at my usual pace, and this is what I've done pretty much every morning since February, when I got the 9Barista. And I'll also make an espresso for my wife about 2-3 times a week. The video has edits in it, but in my hands usually it's about 6 minutes altogether from starting the burner to a cup of espresso, including time to boil and the extraction. Hope you like it! https://youtu.be/nkM7AqiAKmY

@"wilburpan"#p27489 That was great, i was watching on the phone and almost missed the part where you invert the portafilter assembly on to the 9Barista body, at which point the purpose of the silicone cap was clear. I'd like to add it to our coffee knowledgebase if thats OK, as I'm sure it help a lot of people, especially those who are unaware of the device.

@"DavecUK"#p27492 Sure, no problem! I'm just happy that this is helpful.

@"wilburpan"#672 Great video, well narrated. Once you've dialled in a bean as it were, do you find the output is pretty consistent for a given brew time (so your 25-30 sec and stop it in that range) or do you always aim for the 'increased boil noise' you mentioned to be within that range and adjust dose/ grind size to meet the desired brew time?

@"wilburpan"#p27489 Really good video and narration. Thank you for doing it and sharing.

> @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p27494 Once you’ve dialled in a bean as it were, do you find the output is pretty consistent for a given brew time (so your 25-30 sec and stop it in that range) or do you always aim for the ‘increased boil noise’ you mentioned to be within that range and adjust dose/ grind size to meet the desired brew time? It's the second version of what you said. The increased boil noise is the end of the brew time, and I'm going for 25-35s. The way the 9Barista works is like a Moka pot, except that there's a valve between the lower chamber where the water is and the upper chamber where the espresso comes out. As the water heats up, the valve remains closed until the pressure reaches 9 bar, like a conventional espresso machine. Unlike an espresso machine, the only parameters I can control are the grind and dose. I don't have direct control over the extraction time. Once the valve opens, it stays there until the hot water finishes coming through. This is not like an espresso machine, where I could start the extraction and hit the stop button after 30s, or whatever I'm aiming for. I also don't have control over how much liquid comes through, although the ratio is pretty consistent. Instead, I have _indirect_ control over the extraction time. The grind and dose determine the extraction time, with coarser grinds and lower doses decreasing the extraction time, and finer grinds and higher doses increasing it. By adjusting those parameters, I aim to get to an extraction time of 25-35s. Regardless of the actual dose I'm using, if I get the extraction time to 25-35s, the ratio is pretty consistently 1:2.2-1:2.4. I've now had enough experience with the 9Barista that I can predict how the espresso will taste just based on the extraction time. In the 25-35s range, the results are really excellent, regardless of what bean I've used. dThe only exception have been a few medium roast beans that never tasted good to me, even when hitting my target extraction time. Closer to 25s, I'll get more brightness and acidity. Closer to 35s, and the flavor is more intense, and some bitterness comes in. Less than 25s, and the espresso becomes too sour to enjoy. Going long on the extraction is more forgiving. I've had espresso that extracted over close to 60s, and it still wasn't terrible. Dialing the extraction time down to the 25-35s range certainly improved things, though. Hope that makes sense.

@"wilburpan"#p27501 Great video! I generally agree, but for one thing: I wouldn't say it's a moka pot but more a heat activated spring lever machine. The way you apply the heat will have some (small but material) impact on your coffee. I have a fairly precise electric ceramic stove (one of those you can do Chinese fondue with - got it super cheap on Amazon) & can slow down the extraction time by more than 30s modulating the heat level (for exactly the same grind/dose). I start at 1200W for \~2 mins, then 600W for \~2mins, then 400W till loud boiling (about 1 min) then I switch the stove off & leave the 9B standing till I pour. I've been using it for over a year now, it's very consistent. I find what really matters once you've dialled-in the coffee (including heat) is at what level you pour out the coffee as I've discovered I don't like the taste of the coffee after a certain level/time. At the beginning, I would time the extraction & weigh it afterwards, now it's second nature (& there is a little scratch on the machine at the right level I use to peg it correctly 😉). Generally, I dose 19g in for \~32g out. Whole process takes 5-6mins (depending on heat management)

Super interesting thread on a unique piece of espresso kit, thanks @"wilburpan"#672 (great narration, you may have a future in film directing) and @"Enea_"#254 and other posters.

Video of me making espresso with the 9Barista

tompoland

Super interesting thread on a unique piece of espresso kit, thanks @wilburpan (great narration, you may have a future in film directing) and @Enea_ and other posters.

wilburpan

Enea_ I’ve heard of people modulating the heat with the 9Barista to impact the taste of the espresso. I’ve tried it, and maybe I’m just dumb, but it didn’t seem to help much for me.

Then again, I make my espresso first thing in the morning, and that amount of attention to the brewing process would require a caffeine-aided level of concentration. But since I haven’t had my espresso yet, I don’t have the caffeine in me, so I’m in a Catch-22 situation there. 😉

Enea_

wilburpan I’ve just tried it on my gas stove, it’s much more difficult! So please be at ease, I’ve just scientifically proven you’re not dumb 🤣 and as I said it’s a small change in that its real value is to just to slow the flow rate down, which has a small taste impact. To be fair it’s not my discovery, I got the idea from a conversation on the 9B’s reddit forum (I think).

Cuprajake

Now that is commitment to espresso.

LMSC

Great video and that espresso looked awesome! Am sure, it tasted likewise.

Meldrew

Thanks for sharing. Great video.

Rob1

Great video, never seen the piece of equipment before. Looking at how it works the only issue is the limited amount of water you can put through it and the limit to the ratio you can produce (at a maximum). Looks an improvement to a moka pot for people wanting to make espresso.

wilburpan

Rob1 Thanks for the nice comment!

Can you clarify something? I’m not sure what you mean by “the limited amount of water you can put through it”. Are there situations where you would want to use more water when making espresso with a conventional espresso machine?

Also, I’m not sure what you mean by “the limit to the ratio you can produce”. I know there’s a limit to controlling what the ratio will be with the 9Barista, as once the pressure builds to 9 bar, the water comes through the coffee, and it stops when it stops. Having said that, the ratio I get by letting the 9Barista do its thing has been remarkably consistent — somewhere in the 1:2.2-1:2.4 range for coffee doses between 17.5-20g. So I just go for what the final flavor is like, and I don’t worry about the exact ratio too much.

The ratio can be modified by changing the amount of coffee and the amount of water you put in initially, but both methods are indirect and not consistent in my hands, so I put that in the category of being more trouble than it’s worth, especially since I can get really excellent results when I let the 9Barista do its thing.

Rob1

wilburpan

Ok….my thoughts were along these lines. Yes, you can alter the ratio by altering the amount of coffee you put in….but you’re limited to a drink size and I didn’t know what other effect altering the dose would have on the extraction as there’s always a limit to how fine you want to grind.

The amount of water you put into the 9Barista is obviously limited. As you say, it stops when it stops. The website specs say you’ll get a large double shot approx 40ml and the water required is 110-120ml.

There are plenty of reasons you might want a longer shot from 15-20g of coffee. I regularly make shots around 55-90ml approx in volume with lighter roasts. You may be able to tune grind to suit (or just drop the dose if it doesn’t do anything) but there’s always a limit on the volume produced….I guess you could just add water.

wilburpan

Rob1 Thanks for the info. I actually hadn’t heard of making a long espresso shot with a light roast like you describe.

We pretty much make only espresso as far as coffee goes. My wife likes the occasional Americano, but the way we make it is to make a shot of espresso and then add hot water (or cold water and ice when she wants an iced Americano). So I don’t need the 9Barista to provide a longer shot than what it does. Adding more water is an option, as you mention, but I don’t know if that’s exactly the same as what you’re describing.

Rob1

wilburpan

Hmmm I don’t know about that. You’ve probably heard of the Italian standards for espresso as 7g (+/-0.5g) dose to 25ml (+/- 2.5ml) shot or 14g dose to a 50ml shot for a double. Nowadays we use weight rather than volume but the shots people make from 18g or 20g doses are commonly much shorter than a traditional “normale” would be. So my shots are really just about normal or close to lungo at the extreme. The modern trend towards a 1:2 ratio is more of a ristretto. It’s funny to think the makers of the 9barista claim a large double is 40ml when it’s actually a short double, especially with doses above 14g.

Anyway, that doesn’t really mean anything for the quality of the coffee, plenty are great brewed a bit shorter. Adding more water won’t be exactly the same as a longer shot because it wouldn’t increase extraction yield for light roasts the way longer ratios do but the idea behind adding more water was that the size of the drink you get out of it doesn’t matter. There are things you can do, like lowering the dose, that would have the effect of increasing extraction even without a longer ratio, so it’s not really a limitation it just takes a different methodology to dial in.

All in all, it looks like a decent thing to be making coffee with. The majority of people go for 1:2 ratios now and it’s clearly geared towards the more modern trends by design - it’s no accident it will produce a 1:2 or 1:2.5 based on stated dose and capacity.

Nightrider_1uk

Could you speed up the process by adding boiling water to the bottom chamber and then bringing it can to the boil again? If so, would this impact the taste of the coffee?

wilburpan

Nightrider_1uk I haven’t done this too much with the first shot I make, mainly because it doesn’t seem to me that boiling the water separately will save much time compared to filling the lower chamber of the 9Barista with water and putting the 9Barista on the heat source.

I’ve tried this in the context of doing back-to-back shots, where I have a kettle with boiling water ready to refill the bottom chamber for the second shot. Surprisingly, it doesn’t seem to help with speeding things up.

I think the reason why is that most of the time to boiling is getting the metal parts up to temperature, and once that’s happening, boiling the water is a relatively short process.

tompoland

@wilburpan hey thanks for all your posts on the 9barista. You gave me the confidence to order one as a travel machine to replace a Flair 58.

wilburpan

tompoland You’re very welcome. And you can use the 9Barista at home, too! 😄

tompoland

@wilbwilburan a couple of questions if I may.

How tight should I screw the middle section onto the base? I’m asking because I am screwing it on nice and tight but I’m having a real struggle unscrewing it afterwards.
This may be related to the above: the release valve doesn’t appear to release any pressure. I’m referring to the little lever on the base. Is it meant to release pressure when simply flipping it up 90 degrees?

Thanks!

wilburpan

tompoland Sure, ask away, any time!

The middle section should be screwed pretty tightly onto the base. This photo shows how tight the middle and bottom pieces are when my 9Barista is assembled. I use the relative position of the middle part’s handle and the safety valve on the bottom as way to see if I’ve tightened the two pieces enough. Over time, the middle handle has traveled a little more in the clockwise direction when it’s fully tightened.

As for unscrewing the two pieces, the pieces are machined to pretty tight tolerances, and there’s an O-ring in there. I’ve used my 9Barista every day for a year now, and it still feels like it takes a little effort to unscrew them. Having said that…

This is how you lift the safety valve to release the vacuum that forms after the espresso is made, the internal pressure is released, and the 9Barista cools down. It takes some effort to lift the valve. Remember, this valve is designed to pop if the heated water isn’t getting through the espresso, such as if the espresso is ground fine enough to choke the 9Barista. This means that the safety valve won’t pop unless the inside pressure is higher than 9 atmospheres of pressure, as the top valve releases at that pressure.

Try lifting the safety valve while looking inside the bottom piece when the 9Barista is disassembled, and you’ll see the spring compress. That way, you’ll get a good sense of how much effort it will take to release the valve.

You’ll want to release the safety valve after making espresso to make taking apart the middle and bottom parts easier. I’ve made espresso with my 9Barista, and gotten lazy and didn’t clean it out until hours later, long after it had cooled to room temperature. At that point, I can still hear the hiss of air as I release the safety valve. I think that’s a testament to how well the 9Barista is made.

I hope you like using your 9Barista. Please feel free to reach out with any more questions, and I’d love to hear your take on it.

tompoland

wilburpan incredibly helpful thanks. Especially the pics with notations.

I just enjoyed my first espresso with the 9barista. I’m using The espresso was a bit rough but I put that down to the fact that I’m using a new Varia VS3 grinder which is not yet fully seasoned.

In a strange way, the 9barista shares one thing in common with lever machines which is that the making of the espresso is more physical. Not during the pulling of the shot of course but rather the set up process. And as much as some don’t enjoy the slower set up, others like me indulge in it.

I bought an induction cooktop especially for the 9barista because I want to travel with it and because the heat level is critical I don’t want to have to waste 2 or 3 shots figuring that level out at every new Airbnb.

Love this thing so far but definitely not enjoying the pressure release valve. How the heck do you release the pressure without scalding yourself? I used a thick tea towel but still got a little burnt with steam. I think it’s the only part that needs a redesign.

Thanks again!

wilburpan

Good move getting an induction burner. Getting the heat consistent is a good thing. I always use the same setting on the left front burner on my stove. I’m sure there are other settings that can work, but it’s good to take the heat variable out of the equation.

tompoland Love this thing so far but definitely not enjoying the pressure release valve. How the heck do you release the pressure without scalding yourself?

I don’t mean to sound facetious, but I let the 9Barista cool down before taking it apart to clean it. At that point I can lift the valve without any special protection, and the only thing that happens when popping the safety valve is the hiss of air making its way into the lower chamber.

Most mornings, however, I’ll want to clean the 9Barista more quickly than that, because I make one espresso for my wife and then one for myself. To do that, I’ll take the 9Barista to the sink, put on the cold water tap, and run it under water. I generally put water into the chimney, then over one side of the bottom, then the other side of the bottom, then into the top where the espresso was, and then over the outside of the top. Each step is a slow count to 5. (I’m making this sound way more fussy than it is.) At that point I can pop the valve barehanded without problems.

Did you get the precision basket option? I did. I don’t really know if it does anything, because I’ve only used it and not the stock basket that comes with the 9Barista.