Here we go! * Out of box burrs give traditional style and not modern style espresso * Require Mazzer or SSP burrs set * Not leap and bounds better than DF64 * Requires some alignment https://youtu.be/iGJ5mY5LiHI

Can't stand that bloke. Pure paid review and my god those hands ![Giphy - season 1 workout GIF by Fox TV](https://media3.giphy.com/media/ieP5jI3S06bps6yOYu/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869fwlymqdlu5aqzthkya6mhrirx9c3ntbwr9e51uoy5&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Apparently his day job is a preacher in some branch of Christianity. This does help understand his character a bit. You know, plus he's Canadian.

I’m the video he says he gave up his day job and that channel is his main bread winner now. I watched it… I’m not convinced of the product tbh.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p27944 oh wow, bold move. It has potential to be better built than the DF64 but that's a pretty low bar.

Perhaps his sweatshirt says it all 🙂

I could not watch it.....why do Youtubers think you have to start with a catchphrase from a Nineties beer commercial still (even though he did not, but his style makes me want to puke!)

Another one! https://youtu.be/u27g9Xw5TRE

@"dfk41"#p28502 It does look as if that thing needs a miracle, indeed. 😁

DF83 - first impressions

JahLaza

I see a deal on the df83, on their website, down to $610 from$ 1000. Not sure where they’re shipped from (looks like the states) or what taxes would be involved but that’s an impressive discount - see the site below

https://df64coffee.com/products/df83

MattH

JahLaza at least 20% vat plus the handling charge I suspect.

Doing quick math say around 620quid ex shipping. So about 100 quid cheaper than the preorder price at bella barista.

Edit on the website it says no taxes to uk - so who knows 😂

wilburpan

JahLaza Here’s one person’s experience with ordering from df64coffee.com, although it’s a DF64P grinder instead of the DF83. Looks like the order went through, but the package wasn’t really labeled correctly for customs.

So it seems that it’s possible to save some money through this site, with caveats. I’m in the US, so for me, that would be about $50USD savings on a DF83 compared to ordering from espressooutlet.net, which is the legit US distributor. But I don’t think that it’s worth the stress, the potential hassle, or the questionable customer support should something go wrong, all for the equivalent of 3 bags of beans from my local roaster.

I do understand that my priorities may not be the same as others, but TAANSTAFL certainly applies here.

LMSC

MattH no taxes to uk

I guess that’s the US tax! :-)

MediumRoastSteam

No taxes to UK at the point of sale. You’ll most likely get a notification by the courier to pay import duty and vat once it’s been picked up for delivery.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Agreed with shipping, which is subject to VAT, exchange rate losses, import duty and customs handling. I calculate just under £700 landed. It doesn’t say what burrs are inside, I suspect at best, Italmill but could be Chinese burrs. This is because I don’t believe Italmill will supply these companies directly.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam I think it’s also worth making forum members aware that they have a responsibility when these things are purchased from outside the UK e.g. China. If the item is undervalued or other invoice mechanisms used to to try and avoid import duties or VAT, then you as the importer should be paying the correct taxes and duties based on the true cost. To not do so is TAX fraud and you as the importer are responsible.

Their website clearly states “no tax to Europe”, which we know is not possible, unless they are paying these taxes for you. I checked out some websites

I have had a number of similar cases for clients with HMRC. The vendor has undervalued the cost of goods on the shipping documents on which Duty and VAT is calculated. It is the responsibility of the importer to declare the correct value for the goods and HMRC will seek the payment of Duty and VAT based on the price paid for the goods.

You will need to go back to the supplier and explain that you require a invoice/packing note which accompanies the goods to show the price actually paid and the terms of trade. As to prior imports you should ask the agent to amend the entries to show the correct valuation of the goods.

HMRC will NOT take the matter up with the supplier it is the importers responsibility to correctly declare the goods https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/import-vat-goods-value-different-from-amount-paid

The other thing to mention, any warranty is likely to be worthless and the chance of damage is high, because it’s coming a long way by international couriers who couldn’t care less.

Obviously this post only applies to the UK, I have no knowledge of how this is handled in other countries.

tompoland

DavecUK don’t know about the DF83 but seem to recall that the DF64 used to ship with Itallmill. Not sure what the new DF64V ships with other than they are DLC coated, but no mention of brand. I’ve emailed DF to find out, will post here.

tompoland

tompoland here is the response from DF64coffee in response to my email asking about the brand/make of burrs that come standard with the new DF64V.

Hello Tom,

Sure! To clarify,

The burrs are now from our Professional Burr Chinese Manufacturer, they are sharper. The new burr is 100% Stainless steel with DLC coating. Sharper, less prone to rust and more durable.

All our resellers and distributors did their tests in the initial stage and they found the coffee qualiy and grind quality to be superior to the italmill burrs before we launched the new burrs.

Italmill was alloy steel, prone to rust, not as sharp and easier to become blunt. Previously we used to get from them.

prezes

Df83 ships with italmill burrs as standard

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK from outside the UK e.g. China.

But one could argue the same for goods bought directly from Italy (e.g.: ACS - not picking on them, just the first one which comes to mind as they have a very successful model of selling directly to customers and supporting them) into the UK? I know Italy is closer in terms of distance, but the bureaucracy and responsibilities are no different now that we are of the EU.

Amberale

Duties and taxes pay, either directly or indirectly for government services.
I have a car on order which is built in Thailand and to be delivered in Australia.
It is very popular and there are tens of thousands of them on back order.
Due to various shipping fcups there are thousands of vehicles from different manufacturers sitting in fields near the shipping terminals waiting for ships to become available.
Then in Australia there are the understaffed/overworked customs crews who find seeds from Thai plants in the chassis of the cars and the cars then need to be sanitised.
I am a farmer.
I understand the importance of doing this to protect our environment(Thai plants may not pose a problem in Olde Blighty).

TLDNR Taxes pay for services because multinationals and billionaires wont.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Yes, but you pay the VAT…and ACS do support their 2 years parts only warranty…as it’s a requirement of EU law (the 2 years bit).

Shouldn’t confuse that with what that website is doing

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - Sorry I might be misunderstanding something. I thought that, if you buy that grinder from that site, you’ll pay whatever the checkout says (to them) PLUS whatever else HMRC charges you with (usually 20% VAT, duty and other handling fees)

I did a dummy checkout and it clearly did not include any pre-paid custom fees. So presumably it will have to be paid by the importer when it reaches the UK.

Some other companies, like Decent for example, will pay all the import fees/duties upfront to them so whatever you pay them is whatever you will pay.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam My understanding is, as I had posted earlier, “no tax” is the US tax. The UK VAT and import duty are outside their remit. It is the arrangement between the importer, customs and Fedex and not the seller.

I have infact sent a note to them requesting clarification on this.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - Yes, I get it. I’m just trying to understand what Dave’s explanation is about because I’m not understanding what the issue is with related to import tax and how that’s collected for the UK. As far as I can see, it looks pretty standard to me.

Edit: OK. I think I get it now.

Which is misleading of course. No taxes calculated and paid for at checkout/point of sale (as per my previous post and also your point LMSC) but no doubt the tax authority of the country it’s going to will require the importer (the purchaser) to pay taxes (as per my previous post). And @LMSC do notice the message also include the US in the list!

DavecUK

LMSC They clearly state:

no tax to UK and other regions
they have a link to terms and conditions, but there are none visible
Exceptions / non-returnable items Unfortunately, we cannot accept returns on sale items or gift cards.
every thing is on sale (see above)
finally the catch all against each product Kindly note that once you purchase on our website, it is considered sold, there is no return/refund policy. Thank you for your sincerity.

It’s so vague as to give them any excuse….to do pretty much anything. When you are paying the same, or almost the same as buying in your own country (whatever that is), with a warranty and distance selling rules etc.. e.g. they could substitute different burrs and you have no come back.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - Thanks Dave! That’s pretty clear now. Understood!

JahLaza

I’m sorry I ever posted anything about this now!! (Only joking). I’ve no interest as I have 2 perfectly good grinders and only room for one at any one time in our kitchen. I just thought I’d pass this on as it could interest someone here, seeing as there is a thread set up discussing it from before.I’m not based in the US or UK either, but probably no harm this conversation happened, actually for people to be aware of such sites/deals!

tompoland

Agree the site needs to be improved. The “no tax” thing is very misleading. And the constant sale price stickers are tiresome. The no cancellation policy also sucks.

I’ve ordered from them despite all of that for the simple reason that it seems to take Australian retailers 6 to 12 months to offer their new models. And worse still, with e.g. the DF64V no one here in Australia can tell me when it will be available or at what price. It might be 6 months, could be 12. Might be $900, could be$ 1,500. I prefer to order from Australian retailers for various reasons and I do so when possible but there are limits to that.

And of course the other reason to order from overseas is sometimes the price. By way of example, right now, I can have two DF64 grinders landed from the df64coffee website for the price of buying one DF64 locally. Yes, there are potential warranty and support issues. But it’s a massive price difference. (If an imported item costs under AU$1,000 there is no duty payable here in Australia.) Two for the price of one, is hard to ignore.

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland Two for the price of one, is hard to ignore.

This is very true. I mean… You can even buy one and, if one is a dud… You can buy a second one and hopefully it won’t be faulty… And then you have one for spares… A risk worth taking IMO.

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