Worth it to upgrade?

MediumRoastSteam

capuchin Yep, and the coffee tasted so so much better than mine. I thought I brewed decent coffee but it was a whole new world!

Can you tell whether it was the machine or the grinder though? 😃

We are not trying to put you off. But from what I’m reading here, it feels to me you are asking for thought process validation and whether such acquisition would make financial sense as an investment.

Honestly, if coffee machines were an investment, we wouldn’t be in this forum: We would be sailing along the Med.

As you might have figured out, making coffee, like many other hobbies, is a slippery slope. I always say that you should feel comfortable buying a coffee machine if, should the machine pack in in two year’s time, you would not need a second job to buy another one or have it fixed. It’s a rabbit hole, a slippery slope. So be very careful with the expenditure this hobby can lead you to. If it’s something that you can comfortably afford it to buy, keep and accessorise, and loose money in the process… Why not. In a way, not much different to a car. Just a lot cheaper.

tompoland

@capuchin for that price, I’d buy it just for the love of it. The Slayers are amazing machines. If you like medium to dark roasted beans with milk, the niche would be up to the job.

The slayer is art. it’s a joy of a machine. it’s so much more than just what you get in the cup.

But if, for you, what you value is what’s in the cup then probably pass. No judgement there, people value different aspects of espresso: the espresso, the flow, the aesthetics, the quality, smart designs, durability, functionality and more.

I place a high value on beauty, but not above functionality e.g. I have a funny looking Minion-Looking grinder called the Moca SD and a box looking espresso machine in the Decent. So it’s not all about the looks. But a slayer … wow, that’s got it all.

And he’s right, assuming it’s in good nick, you aren’t going to lose money on it.

And if you decide that you want something to match it, and the niche is not doing it for you, there are a bunch of “next level” grinders that will bring out more in the medium to light roast range e.g. the Moca SD or a P64.

Cuprajake

from a quick glance, these machines are plumb only, now id presume the seller who can afford such a machine will have sorted water,

id be looking at how easy it is to plumb in your home, as well as the associated filters and water conditioners, next up would be the up keep of the machine, is there some one local to service it should it need it,

the machine itself will be fine as they are a high class machine,

id say in terms of an investment a machine like that will hold some if not all its value, come resale time, how ever finding some one who wants to spend that cash on a machine of the age may be hard to sit on, but its end game and in theory you should never nee to replace it,

i say do it, you only live once, but only if you can afford it,

me id be buying this in a heartbeat

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255677848645

its a bargain and we know the seller too.

Ernie1

Cuprajake https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255677848645

Including a Mythos?! That’s like £8k of equipment for £3.5k!

Dusk

Ernie1

Probably because there isn’t a market for it at any price higher than that. Even at a supposed bargain price it’s available for, everyone seems to be saying to steer clear suggesting the price is still too high.

Ernie1

Dusk

Indeed. I suppose the only thing that can keep used prices of goods inflated is lack of supply in the new market, like we’ve seen with new cars, motorbikes, computing. To use the watch example again it’s why the price of a almost-new Rolex, Patek or AP is far higher than RRP of a new one compared to say an Omega, which is much less.

CoyoteOldMan

Dusk I think there are other reasons for the ‘steer clear’ - not just the price. The multi-group Vostok are really meant for commercial premises: plumbed in, 30A spur required. Not something that one can improvise…

To be honest, given the eBay ad, I’m not even sure the seller really intends to sell. There’s no mention of what the machine is, not even the brand. There are 214 eBay ads matching his very generic title; chances it will be seen are pretty low.

Ernie1 like we’ve seen with new cars, motorbikes, computing.

Or Niche Zeros 😁

Cuprajake

the seller jonny was very active on the other forum, agree it would be perfect for a cafe

dfk41

I know that not every one will agree with me but…….a coffee machine makes coffee, be it a cheap one or an expensive one. A Slayer might have some unique features, but you have to learn your fieldcraft. The Slayer cannot turn bad practice and ingredients into stellar coffee. Others have hinted, but the most important part of making a coffee is the grinder. The Niche does a good job. Do you have to spend 3 or 4k on one of these super titan grinders……some will say yes, I say absolutely not! You soon end up at a point where you are splitting the atom

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 coffee machine makes coffee

I agree with you the grinder is more important than the coffee machine. But you could also argue that a grinder grinds coffee, and a Gaggia Classic or Lelit Grace do a great job too! Which then begs the question why people bother spending more than £500 on a coffee machine. Fact is… we all do.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam My point was that you can spend 10k on a pukka oven, but if you throw stewing steak in and press a couple of buttons, you do not get a fillet steak out!

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - I understand. But the steak in your example alludes to the quality of the coffee. So it’s not about the coffee machine, or the grinder (or the oven)… it’s about the quality of the coffee you put into it more than anything!

Cuprajake

I get what dfk41 is saying

For me and I’ve said it alot, that after about £2k your pretty end game, as soon as you get into dual boilers then there’s very little between them for domestic use.

After this it’s literally what appeals to you.

Same again grinders. You can spend good money but it’s not always a wow difference say going from a niche to a kafatek

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake of course, I also understand what you both are saying, but I don’t think it is that simple (or complicate).

Yet some can say that above 1k there’s very little difference between what you get from coffee machines in terms of diminishing returns. You can even say that a humble Gaggia Classic (or Silvia) with PID could produce coffee as good as the Elizabeth or a Pro-700. Same goes for grinders, as you point out… the mignon, the Niche, the super duper grinder….

But if you put crap coffee in the great grinder or coffee machine, you’ll get crap coffee. But then again taste is subjective…. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

A never ending debate for sure.

tompoland

Part of why I buy is a feeling. Pride, joy, pleasure, satisfaction. It’s what some of us humans do.

Beauty is a joy to me.

And I can marvel at a well engineered design.

Or feel satisfied with workflow.

What’s in the cup has to be enjoyable too of course. But it’s not the sum total of why I buy.

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland And I can marvel at a well engineered design.

That’s another thing I was thinking this morning. Sometimes it’s not all about quality in the cup, as one could have a machine made of the cheapest materials, but as long as it can push water under pressure at desired rate, flow and temperature, it would achieve the same as one made of more expensive materials.

Same with grinders. I have a friend who bought a monolith and raves about it. Not only about the quality, but the engineering, the materials, the tolerances. He also has a LMLM.

So to Jake and dfk’s point, they are right, in the sense that there’s a point of diminishing returns, for sure in terms of quality in the cup. It might not be as low or as high as they say, as it can be subjective. But it comes a point where your money goes elsewhere: design, quality, engineering, materials, etc, etc.

Isn’t that the same for most things in a way? Cars? Phones? Bikes? Audio equipment?

😉

Ernie1

tompoland Beauty is a joy to me.

And I can marvel at a well engineered design.

100% this. I’ve met enough polarised opinions over the years to come to the conclusion you either get it or you don’t. Some people want the best function for the best value, some will pay a little extra for the joy they get from design.

I just bought a 20 year old Eames chair. It’s less comfortable and ergonomic than an IKEA office chair but I get much more enjoyment from it.

Same with the Harleys I owned over the years, I met bikers who simply could not fathom for a second why someone would want one over their refined, high-tech, high speed sports bike that cost half as much.

But I don’t think it’s universal for everyone, in spite of the above I drive a very basic, small car and wonder why people spend £80k on a car to drive at 20mph everywhere and sit in traffic. But it obviously brings them joy in some capacity.

If joy is in the very best espresso in the cup and the process of getting there that’s also awesome! It’d be a boring hobby if everyone just had a Slayer!

Life is too short for not enjoying the things that bring joy!

Ernie1

It’s probably worth noting that I’m a designer by trade, so I’d be out of work if people didn’t splash out on things that look nice 😅

Cuprajake

like i said, the machine in question is no doubt worth it, will it be better than say a bianca maybe/maybe not.

like i said once you get to a level its the little things that make the difference, looks, size placement happy wife etc

capuchin

Thanks for all your great advice guys. After a lot of thought, I’ve decided not to go for it, and communicated it to the seller.

Points about logistics/plumbling, diminishing returns, and stuff really hit it home for me. The other thing I realised, is what brings me enjoyment is drinking over the process of building the coffee. For example I still usually use automated milk frothing, because at the end of the day I just want nice coffee. So it’s not the machine for me currently. I’ll spend £500 on a niche zero and the rest on a nice painting that I enjoy looking at every single day.

There’s actually a 2 group slayer on Ebay for 7k currently if anybody is interested.

DavecUK Yes, you’ve done a great job with this forum! (as have all the contributors.) When I signed up, it was 1 day old, and you never know with these things the motivations of long lastingness. But I’ve enjoyed browsing and watching it grow ever since staying true to purpose.

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