ECM Synchronika, 4 years trouble free, not plumbed in, using bottled water in reservoir Then water was found pooling under the machine. It was the plastic T connector for the OPV pipes which had melted into a crispy brown mess. The overflow water could have gone anywhere, I replaced the part. During my repair I also saw some evidence of previous water presence in the corner where the reservoir valve sits. and watermarks on the steel reservoir frame where the plastic water reservoir plugs in. It looked as though water had flowed out of the open corner of the reservoir frame and gathered underneath that corner - water stains and rusty screw heads were visible. I repaired the valve on the reservoir plastic tank which had a spring that was stuck in the open position. It no longer leaks. Although I could see no actual water I gave it a week with the covers off to let the air get to it. I was still getting some gurgling and overflow water through the outlet below the E61 group. Much reduced, though. A week or two later I turned the ECM on, and 5 mins or so into its warm up it tripped the main relay on the house Consumer Panel. It did this twice that day, I had the covers off again, but saw no water leaks, no indication of overheating wiring, There is evidence of deposits on the reservoir/plumbed in switch below the overflow, but this looks to be from the T piece problem, now fixed, and no sign of water around it, I removed the pressure valve from the service boiler and cleaned out the plunger/seal mechanism. It looked pristine, but I cleaned and replaced it anyway, The ECM seemed to be heating up ok, so I put the covers back on and started it off. Five minutes or so into warmup it tripped the main relay for the third time. Can anybody suggest where I should be looking in order to fix this, please? My espresso habit has been left cold turkey for over a week now! Im a bit anoyed that a cheap 19p plastic part was used in between two hot boilers, and has probably been a major factor in this problem. Especially when you consider the quality of the rest of the machine is top notch, Thank you in anticipation for any ideas you could share CB

@"CardinalBiggles"#p1569 Do you have some good photos of the interior we can see? It could be a number of things and we'd like to save you unnecessary expense.

@"CardinalBiggles"#p1569 - does the same happen if you turn the service boiler off right at the start?

Hi MediumRoastSteam, thanks for responding. I don't know how to do that. HOw would I go about it, please?

Hi DavecUK, thanks for responding. Great idea! I'll upload below some pics from my phone 👍

ECM Synchronika, and the T connector that failed in the heat. Replacement part was 19p. Damage to machine..lpriceless [URL=https://i.imgur.com/MWh7lrr.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/MWh7lrr.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/tZEJmTT.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/tZEJmTT.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Service Boiler[URL=https://i.imgur.com/wW87auE.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/wW87auE.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Brew Boiler connections and side view of machine showing pump and insulated brew boiler [URL=https://i.imgur.com/LyrMtjk.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LyrMtjk.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/ZMkqaOa.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ZMkqaOa.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

When I took the covers off I noticed evidence of water around the reservior valve, running off into the machine below. I repaired that valve, which was dripping. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/IV1BHYm.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/IV1BHYm.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/ty0ZJLN.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ty0ZJLN.jpg[/IMG][/URL] This is the plumbed-in water entry to the machine, below that open corner of the reservoir holder [URL=https://i.imgur.com/kguuAjV.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/kguuAjV.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/1o9OJIT.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1o9OJIT.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Apologies for the quality of these three. This is where the Reservoir water must have leaked into. There's framework there but no components. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/m9TsvpL.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/m9TsvpL.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/vVH4juI.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vVH4juI.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/MD1YCY7.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/MD1YCY7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

This is the best shot I could get between the front of the machine and the Brew boiler. And wiring around the Brew boiler. Wiring seems OK? [URL=https://i.imgur.com/ZG0kPSo.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ZG0kPSo.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/BYb5kym.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/BYb5kym.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Help! please!

CardinalBiggles

@DavecUK

Thanks for that Dave, point noted re the Consumer Unit.

As you were posting I was typing in at the same time, and I’m suspecting the Service boiler element atm.

What’s the best way to determine if it’s gone please?

I’d much rather replace an element than have a purely electrical issue.

And at least the Synchronika has everything reasonably easy to get to. I’m learning a lot about the design of this machine, and the more I learn the more I aopreciate it (plastic T connectors excluded, of course)

Thanks again

Baldrick

CardinalBiggles if you’re able to independently have each element come on then seeing which one blows the RCD would be the easiest.
The best way would be to put a multimeter across the elements to measure the resistance and also check if there is a path to earth.
This doesn’t always show up though, as faults on elements sometimes only surface when under load and heated up. Then you’d need an insulation resistance tester….

Also wish to echo Dave’s excellent advice, get the board looked at. RCDs are there to save your life. Everything else - the MCB’s, fuses in plugs etc are there to protect the cabling in your house - they will NOT protect you from electrocution.

DavecUK

CardinalBiggles As you were posting I was typing in at the same time, and I’m suspecting the Service boiler element atm.

What’s the best way to determine if it’s gone please?

Sounds favourite for the problem….best way, unplug machine, disconnect element check resistance to earth…e.g. element terminal to side of boiler. use megohm scale, or highest one you got. Check resistance of element itself, use 0hm scale or lowest you got, it will probably be 37-40 ish ohms or something.

If you don’t know how to do either of these…buy a new element and at worst you have a spare. When removing element, support boiler and tappy tappy if you can, not torquey torquey, or you will bend pipes. If you can’t get it out, remove boiler and try.

MediumRoastSteam

CardinalBiggles - what water do you use in your machine? Looks, to me, quite a lot of limescale buildup on the broken T connector and where the water leaked ?

MediumRoastSteam

CardinalBiggles Service boiler switched off
Brew boiler looked fine, got up to 923 degrees without incident, and quite quicklySo
I turned on the Service boiler switch
Instant blackout, whole house, main switch on the consumer panel.

Baldrick - think given the statement above, seems to me the service boiler is at fault here. 👍

Baldrick

MediumRoastSteam haha quite right too!

CardinalBiggles

DavecUK

Hi Dave, and thanks for your help.

I’ve had very serious illness in my immediate family, compounded with difficulty getting hospital treatment at the moment, so my ECM had to take a back seat until we had that under control.

But yesterday I took my Service boiler element out, expecting it was the problem, and did a continuity test on the element terminals as per your advice. I got 36 Ohms resistance, so I’m guessing that this is an OK functioning part after all.

Is there anything you could advise please?

Elcarajillo

On photo 13, check the connections , the case to the control box looks as if it has been slightly overheated ?

CardinalBiggles

Thanks for all this really helpful advice. I’m definitely missing my Flat Whites atm!

It’s a fair comment on the limescale. We have terrible water here for scale, and people go through kettles at a rapid rate of knots. I’ve been using bottled water via the reservoir, but clearly there are limescale deposits around the machine. When I sort out the boiler I’ll be giving the whole machine a good clean out and descale, then plumbing it in with a high spec water filter. The BWT stuff seems to have a good reputation, but I’m open to other suggestions, recommendations and advice.

Thanks again for all of your support, and I wish you all a very Happy, Healthy and caffeinated New Year!!

LMSC

CardinalBiggles Not a super fan of these filters. It’s more of a faff to keep checking their efficiency plus the replacement costs - I have no idea what they cost, how often you replace them and how good they are vs other safer choices.

I do not know what bottled water you use. Please have a look at this thread, which also has @Rob1’s excel.

Most of us would use RO or distilled water; add bicarbonate to address alkalinity. We are not suggesting you should go this route, but this is something for you to think and address before you start using the machine.

Nightrider_1uk

Oh dear…….. @DavecUK is is right about that consumer unit, If I was inspecting it I would give that a C2 rating, 100mA Rccb’s should only be used to protect cable, not life, 30mA RCD / RCBO’s are required to save lives. Thats what I installed to protect the Armoured cable to the supply installed in the garden shed. I’ve just installed a couple of new consumer units as part of a total rewire for two flats. Both has 30mA RCBO’s for every circuit. Your board has not been inspected for almost 15 years. it needs some serious work As a minimum i’d have a new Split load consumer unit installed with 2, 30mA RCD’s, that at least give a measure of diversity and tells you which part of the hose electrics have tripped.

DavecUK

CardinalBiggles But yesterday I took my Service boiler element out, expecting it was the problem, and did a continuity test on the element terminals as per your advice. I got 36 Ohms resistance, so I’m guessing that this is an OK functioning part after all.

Not necessarily….with the 100mA RCD, you have, this is a trip to earth current so low that it won’t allow element damage if the element is leaking to earth.

So the resistive part of the element is OK, if you held it up in the air, and powered it, I’m sure it would get hot….but the sheath is probably pinholed/defective where water is in with the MgO powder inside and surrounding the element…..allowing a leakage current to earth.

You can only properly check resistance to earth with a Megger (or similar), it makes a high voltage 400-2000V (not current) pulse to the element, which insures any insulation breakdown and leakage to earth can be detected. The higher the voltage the more easily it passes through faulty insulation.

From the description of the problem…buy yourself a new element and I feel fairly confident all will be OK.

CardinalBiggles

Thank you Dave I should point out that there’s seperate 60A protection between the Eleccy meter and the 100A RCD panel…

I did try to order the part from BB, but it’s not in stock.

Having worn Google out I can confirm that the UK is devoid of ECM 1400W elements!

Germany is stuffed to the gills with em, at good prices too, but as soon as you need to engage with post-braxit ordering the £35 part (incl gasket) becomes £65. B****y Brexit Dividend my arse!!.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

Cheers,

DavecUK

CardinalBiggles Dave I should point out that there’s seperate 60A protection between the Eleccy meter and the 100A RCD panel…

Goodness, not sure why that is there, is that the main electricity board breaker, or is there another one of probably 100A in a newish property (last 30 years). Your electrics are a mystery to me….might be worth getting a sparky in and have a took at them….totally unrelated to the machine problem

Elcarajillo

CardinalBiggles Ask a local electrician to do a high resistance test on the element, would only take a minute. At least it would prove / disprove the element and /or point to something else.

Elcarajillo

CardinalBiggles Look on ebay. yourspares. 269147 Element. £66.00. Sussex. ??

Elcarajillo

Probably the ‘ E -board’ fuse for isolating ?

CardinalBiggles

The photos ,might explain!

Sorry one is out of focus, but I was balanced on a box holding the phone in one hand and the light in the other.

The top beige box is the 100A breaker with a series of switches for various zones/rooms in the house. One of these is the kitchen switch that trips out on my ECM.

T
he grey contraption by the meter is the 60A breaker which has never tripped, and tbh I’ve steered well away from!

DavecUK

CardinalBiggles Seriously, might be worth seeing if you can get that upgraded to an 80 or 100 amp service, contact UK power networks, it might actually be FREE!

That way, if you get a 9kW electric shower, 32kW induction cooker and an electric car it will probably all be good…if it’s free it can only help increase the value of the property. Unless it’s a place where you could never charge an electric car, or a small flat etc.

Elcarajillo

DavecUK From past experience the utility providers do not do anything without a charge / cost.

Always worth asking the question though.

DavecUK

Elcarajillo Apparently people have had upogrades for free…can’t hurt to ask.

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