Sage Dual Boiler

ajohn

I have had this for some time. Being unsure I bought a refurb when these were around on ebay I bought it early 2018. ;) The refurb seemed to be descale and check all was working. I noticed that steam came on later than brew so descaled a couple of time which levelled things up. More even boiling noises from it as well. As the case needed a good degunk with window cleaner I don’t think it was anything like new. No problems with O ring seals. Scale sludge caused solenoid rattle but easily cleaned up. Probably time to replace it now. Anyway about 4 or 5 months ago it had the overheat and heating when not on problem that crops up now and again. This usually means a triac has failed. If that pretty easy to replace but haven’t checked yet. As this is the usual failure in this area be an interesting thing to look at. It might be the triac drive chip that has failed or the triac itself.

Spares in the UK are now somewhat easier. A source can be found by searching Sage bean to cup spares. At the DB end they seem to have concentrated on the Oracle. Oz or NZ is the other option. I’ve not tried getting the part number of coffee classics and ordering off Sage, I asked Coffee Classics about spares some time ago when they stopped selling them.

:) Anyway I want to get all traces of scale out of it. That is a fair amount of work and not convenient at the moment so after some thought ordered a new one.Too many things about it suite me compared with others.The heat up time isn’t the only one. It’s ready to use as soon as I have Niche’d the grinds. Taste tells me not to bother preheating a bottomless portafilter but that wouldn’t add that much time anyway.

The problems with Sage machines often come down to maintenance. I came across someone who wanted to turn off the clean me lights on another of their machines to save doing it. Scale often figures in these machines. Even their engineers see that.

My previous BE is now with my son. ;) I think he uses the grinder timer and trims with the razor tool. Or maybe to check weight.

dfk41

I enjoyed the several Sage DB’s that I owned. The only problem is/was I have no skills with spanners (or come to think of that, very few actual spanners either) therefore had no hope of longevity. A few years ago there was always a stream of reductions available from reputable websites, but now, it seems harder to find a deal. I would have another if circumstances dictated (god forbid!). When you do the Gary Dyke hacks which were legendary you could get a really good shot from them

scwheeler

dfk41 what are the legendary Gary hacks? (Sorry I’m late to the party!)

dfk41

scwheeler If you email me at my signature email, I will find them and send them to you! Found them!
https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/sage-db-is-this-acceptable.32158/page-2

scwheeler

dfk41 most kind thank you. Something new to play around with!

DavecUK

dfk41 Did you know CFUK don’t allow linking to anything on this forum. 🤣

dfk41

scwheeler The first cuppa I had, I found oodles of fruit from where there shad been none previously! If ever I had one again it is the first thing I would do! Let us know how you get on!

dfk41

DavecUK I am not surprised, but there again, we are not that pathetically insecure and petty are we?

Cuprajake

Both forums are black listed. Even the words haha

ajohn

Not for me. Had my play with pre infusion etc and didn’t like what came out. I had set a different pre infusion time but found standard was best. I need some fruity beans to see what happens with Niche and Mazzer mini. Light roasts were not a problem with Niche but could be better ?? Don’t know without other grinders to try, Some will take a while to get going.

Same with 40sec brews. Tried didn’t like. I have been known to use 20sec for my wife, Sometimes works out without changing the grind.

;) Spanners - at least there no need for them descaling, Just a screwdriver.

dfk41

I found this old video with the hacks I suggested done. I always think the lower bar extraction worked well

ajohn

I played around with all sorts for a while after using the machine the usual way for - not sure ~12 months but didn’t find anything better. ;) I usually experiment with monsooned though as drink lots. I’m bound to have tried others. I finished up cutting back pre infusion to the standard setting based on results. I had been using longer due to using a BE before.

I’m trying grinds straight into the portafilter with Niche at the moment. Looks like I can consistently get good /better pours compared with using the grinds cup. :( Having taste and smell problems with my monsooned though. Not sure why yet. Could be that the roaster shut down for the Xmas week and orders kept coming in so have been extremely busy. I had to contact them several days after ordering. Usually shipped the day after I order. Or the new machine. Not sure.

nickr

I’ve had my Sage Dual Boiler for a couple of months now, having previously owned an L1 for about 10 years. What’s surprised me is that to get the same sort of flavours in the cup as I was getting with the L1, I need to set the temperature to about 94degC. I thought the general consensus was that L1’s couldn’t do these sort of temps. The other surprise is the Sage takes at around15 minutes to be ready to pull a shot to this sort of temperature. Another and more welcome surprise is how forgiving it is on shot preparation - wonderful. Far easier and more reliable results than the L1

dfk41

nickr Over the years, I owned 4 or 5 Sage Dual Boilers and if it were not for longevity issues couples with my infamous lack of skills with spanners, I might have kept them longer! If you want the work around Nick for pulling the shot using pre-infusion, then email me. it involves going into the advanced menu and altering a couple of things, which is fully reversible in seconds. With the Sage, you can set the temp accurately whereas with the earlier L1’s, you pulled the shot at whatever the system gave to you. With the right bean/shot prep you could get very good results, but, you really are guessing!

Grahamsphillips

nickr So I take it you prefer the SDB? I loved my DB.. my son has it now.. but I must say I’m hugely enjoying my L1 and find it pretty consistent!

Petre

This is an actual measurement of a machine I have (Rancilio Silvia Pro), the PID was set to the red line. This is when the machine was hot, when it was colder, the graph was different. If you take flow in consideration, things will become even more mixed up. My point is, when you have so much variation and you have to pick a single number things become debatable and each manufacturer may have its own way of calibration, that’s why I think the temps are not always transferable from machine to machine, you need to dial in for that specific setup.

DavecUK

Petre The manufacturers tend to test them in “Lab” conditions, not realistic home use….I believe this is a mistake. It has the expediency of being quicker and seemingly more organised and professional.

I temperature test as a user would use the machine, with long periods of inactivity, then a couple of shots, or sometimes inactive for a while then 4 shots. This is how machines are really used and they can react quite differently than during “Lab” tests. Any PID setup is always a compromise to try and guess the use pattern.

These tests also have to be done across the entire espresso temperature range (used to be 90 to 95), with modern trends this now has to be 88 to 95. Of course this means another compromise, as you want more accuracy in the middle and less as we get to the extremes

nickr

I agree, methodology is very difficult. I’ve been measuring the temp in a polystyrene cup at 5 min intervals. I’m not bothered by absolute temperatures, I’m just looking to see the point at which it ceases to increase. I know for a fact that the machine is not ready for use at 5 minutes. I now think it stabilises somewhere between 10 and 15.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK I temperature test as a user would use the machine, with long periods of inactivity, then a couple of shots, or sometimes inactive for a while then 4 shots

An interesting point. As a user, I’m the total opposite. I turn the machine on and pull a shot, and turn it off. 6 hours later, I do the same. So the “periods of inactivity” (presumably leaving the machine on), “a couple of shots” and “4 shots”, for me at least, are totally irrelevant.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam That would be covered by my warm up testing. It’s why temp testing takes so long.