So you say:

IzzyAg whatever it takes to make good quality coffee. The title barista does not interest me, as coffee is not the main focus in my concept.

IzzyAg My target market is not coffee lovers. That said, I would still want something of a higher standard that people still taste the difference compared to a coffee at the station.

That feel contradictory to me. The coffee at the station is most likely provided by a bean to cup machine, (e.g.: you press a button, it grinds the coffee, and it makes the beverage you want) and that machine is periodically cleaned and maintained by a company which supplies those. There are quite a few of those out there.

You have no interest in learning to make coffee - therefore leave it to someone who has, or to a machine that’s programmed to do so. If you put a machine there and expect it to just make coffee without any care from you, the product will be to match.

If I were you, I’d simply get a bean to cup machine - a Delonghi Magnifica for example. How long will it last in your environment? Who knows.

        MediumRoastSteam

        As I said earlier, I am willing to spend time learning how to use a machine with grinder. I just don’t want to make that my main focus. Only beginner skills, I don’t want to be a master at it. Please, if you want to help and not be a sensitive little donkey, first read my previous posts carefully, and you will find your answer there.

            IzzyAg whatever it takes to make good quality coffee. The title barista does not interest me, as coffee is not the main focus in my concept.

            I am trying to explain nicely to you! To get a good coffee, you need certain skills. If you went to a Gordon Ramsay restaurant, would you be happy with being served frozen chips? Think of a coffee machine as an oven. All it does is cook whatever you put into it. You cannot put a fatty piece of brisket into it and take out a fillet steak. You cannot serve good coffee without learning to make it. I suggest you spend a few days visiting coffee shops etc and buy from them. You will come across the odd good coffee. A lot of mediocre coffee, and a lot of shite! But if you do not know the difference how can you do any better. A Bean to Cup machine does not serve tasty coffee……and anyone seeing it would know with 100% certainty that you are not up for it matey

            https://www.suddencardiacarrestuk.org/2024/02/thank-goodness-for-madeira-cake/

                Making 50 - 100 coffees during a busy shift will pretty much mean that is all you are doing during said shift. It probably takes at least 2 minutes to make a coffee if you are also steaming milk

                dfk41

                I understand completely, but do you understand me? I said I am willing to invest time to make a good coffee. I don’t want to be the best either, but quality coffee. As you say yourself, you have five-star restaurant like Gordon Ramsay’s, but you also have a lot of star restaurants that offer good quality. You shouldn’t look at everything black and white, my friend. I just want to offer good quality coffee and spend moderate time on it. Can’t believe it’s such a difficult question.

                    IzzyAg As I said earlier, I am willing to spend time learning how to use a machine with grinder. I just don’t want to make that my main focus. Only beginner skills, I don’t want to be a master at it. Please, if you want to help and not be a sensitive little donkey, first read my previous posts carefully, and you will find your answer there.

                    Good quality coffee for the customers is the focus. The experienced folks here have given you enough helpful information.

                    Perhaps, a used Mazzer Major with a new mazzer burrs will be helpful. As far as the machine, I am not sure you can get a used commercial machine for that price. You aim to make 50-100 coffees and busy shifts. I am afraid you are going to require a machine that can deliver that. Perhaps, a B2C as others have suggested. I am not sure about the longevity either.

                    You have choose what you think will suit your customers.

                    That said, beginner’s skill, good quality coffee and not willing to be commit the required time and resources to make the good coffee don’t go together! You might have to get a barista to get a good cup, otherwise!

                    I am afraid some one has not shown a little more sensitivity and appreciation here!

                      Ok. If I were to be objective and go by the first post:

                      IzzyAg So far I like the sage line the best, but I am still hesitating on which model. Can someone help me with this please. I give you the following information:

                      my budget is around 1000

                      IzzyAg Could you suggest me some beginner coffee machines without a built-in grinder? I will take some time off to learn to do it the right way

                      For your budget of “1000” I’m assuming it’s GBP.

                      Let me ask you a question: which machines from Sage are you thinking of? On another post you say you don’t want a machine with a built-in grinder. Do you already have a grinder, is a grinder to be part of the budget of “1000” or are you thinking of using pre ground coffee? Or maybe pods?

                            IzzyAg
                            You can have a look at Bella Barista for example and see machines that cost £1000 and less, these work fine at home but they’re not built to do 50 - 100 shots a day. Your budget is quite low unfortunately and you’ll need a good grinder to get the most out of the coffee.

                            https://bellabarista.co.uk/collections/espresso-machines?sort_by=price-ascending

                            If you want to serve better coffee that’s served at a train station then you’ll need to go down the semi-automatic machine route. I’d suggest contacting a local roaster and asking if they can provide you with something suitable that you could pay for weekly or perhaps second hand. They can provide you with a reliable ‘house blend’ of coffee, training and machine support.

                                IzzyAg No problem and best of luck with it.

                                Making good coffee isn’t rocket science but it is a skill, if you receive good training they will teach you how to tweak the settings to get the most of your coffee.

                                  Firstly, good luck with your business, it takes confidence to launch a business of any kind so congrats on that.

                                  Sadly, whilst pretty bluntly delivered, the above comments are all valid, you’re not going to efficiently make ‘decent’ coffee quickly and repeatedly on a £1000 machine with a built in grinder. It’s hard enough to consistently make a good espresso on those at home.

                                  And certainly not if you only have one member of staff.

                                  Reliability is a huge factor and you might be making as many coffees in a day as a home user would in two months. There’s also things like temperature consistency and the ability to steam milk alongside pulling espresso.

                                  There aren’t many machines approved for commercial and home use for less than £4K. That isn’t to say you can’t use a home one, it just means it’s not tested for that environment.

                                  I have a machine that’s technically apporoved for commercial use and I’m still not sure I’d want to use it in a commercial setting. I’d want two groups (to make two coffees at once) at the very least. If someone comes up and orders three coffees, and you’ve got a single group home machine, their food is going to be cold by the time the coffees are ready.

                                  My suggestion, for whatever it’s worth, would be to consider batch brewing filter coffee in a big commercial batch brewer and then serving from something like this.

                                  It’s not going to be a cappuccino or or flat white but if the coffee isn’t the focus, it’s still a way of quickly dispensing decent enough coffee.

                                  There used to be a coffee shop in East London which was a subsidiary of one of the best roasters in the UK (and NZ) called Ozone who would serve batch brew to commuters in the rush hour from similar canisters to the one above. It served the purpose and was still enjoyable.

                                  Otherwise, making a decent espresso based drink commercially is an expensive and involved process that you can’t really skimp on.

                                  Good luck with the business.

                                    IzzyAg - ok, that makes sense now. Either that one or the Barista Express - in fact, there’s a sandwich shop near me who has one and it’s been there for a while. Saying that, I have no idea of usage as I never had a coffee from them. However, as stated before by someone else, those machines are designed to be used in a domestic environment (low usage, 3-6 cups a day) rather than your anticipated volume of 50-100 per day.

                                    Given your budget, I don’t think the Oracle fits the bill? They sell around £1.4k new (or more) which is 40% over budget. The Barista Express retails around £400-500.

                                    Anyway, I don’t think I’ve got anything else to add here. The “sensitive little donkey” wishes you good luck with your business venture. 😉

                                        Picking from where Ernie1 had left, I have seen one of the roasters also happen to run a coffee shop in Finsbury Park, London having something like this on their counter.

                                        https://bellabarista.co.uk/collections/coffee-brewers-drip-filters-french-press/products/moccamaster-technivorm-kbg741-select-orange-with-free-250g-bag-of-coffee

                                        They only brew light / medium on the brewer.

                                        I have to caution that their mainstay is a commercial grade espresso machine; one of the mythos range is their grinder.

                                        GL with your venture!

                                            LMSC

                                            I have that exact machine, love it. Basically a lazy persons V60 and the best part is almost all the parts are replaceable… I broke the carafe and scaled up the shower screen, replaced both for under £20.

                                            As you say though, needs to be paired with a good grinder.

                                              Ernie1

                                              Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply. I will take your advice to heart.