If you haven't seen it already, @"lancehedrick"#742 has published a nice review of the upcoming Vostok 1 group on Youtube. There is no real surprise for those of us who have followed @"DavecUK"#1 's postings (and the planned improvements for this machine), but its still is a well made video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4UtmXO9zVU I'm sure this will raise interest in ACS… So well done !

some bits were a bit off in terms of correct info, but they do look a great machine. id love one but its too big. most the points picked up on davec already said, now away to spam his comments am i - haha

It's funny (and sad at the same time) to read some of the vitriolic comments on this video which remind me of what happened when the Evo Leva came to the market (probably with the same cast of characters as well!)

@"Eiffel"#p35306 Luckily though, those will not be buying it.....instead, they will continue to push the virtues of the machine they prefer. The Vostok is too complicated for me now! But, I can really see it appealing to a very wide market. Anyone who cannot handle the size, then hopefully many of the features will transfer to the Evo. Hope folks do not quickly start to copy the ideas, or that Paolo patents them correctly

Going by the video, the Vostok 1G is well priced and feature laden. The good news for us, Evo Leva owners, is that we've been able to get exactly the same results for 18 months, albeit without the automation capabilities of the newer machine… In an commercial setting, some of the added features are easier to justify (Automatic termination of shots, timers, some comfort features, etc), but for hobbyist use the upgrade, while tempting, is harder to justify… It's nice to have the choice though as the Evo Leva and Vostok 1G are both great variants of the same base design.

Looking at some of the comments on Lance's video, it's very clear some people haven't got a clue what they are talking about, and have not even bothered to watch the video! i.e.: "How is the group head connected to the brew boiler? I thought it was a dipper design." Err... One of the first things Lance explains is that the machine has 3 heat controllers: for the 2x boilers and for the group.

Question (I have asked this before, and it's in here somewhere, although a while ago). But what's the difference between the Evo and the Vostok? i.e.: Why would I buy one over the other?

well the new vostok comes in a one group, pretty sure it was just a multi group before, the new vostok has all the pressure sensor sides for shot stopping and group evacuation, it has the same boilers and and did have the same group but obs now the vostok has the modded group to allow it to vent, i presume this is just the evo group modded but could be wrong, its also bigger, and imo prettier

@"Cuprajake"#p35327 - Thanks Jake. So, in summary, a V Evo on steroids! 🙂

The Vostok 1G looks like an amazing machine. It goes a bit to far me and imo more complexity is even more stuff to potentially have issues arise with. At least, I am telling myself that so I try to not email ACS and ask to be put on the list for one (ha!) It would be nice though if the Leva had the new pump and the external pre-infusion setting. Has anyone looked at adding the barista lights to the Leva since the controller seems already set up for it?

Lance Hedrick - review of the VOSTOCK

lancehedrick

Cuprajake depends which gauge we are talking about. sometimes the manual one on the group read close to 10, but mostly right around 9. The one on the machine read a bit lower. about half a bar lower.

DavecUK

lancehedrick talked about the lights with him last night and moaning about the way to fix them and you can’t just stick the strips, I said to him that there are professional fixing clips you could use. The problem is always is too much work too many things and these little things can take a backseat. Even though I consider them important 😁

DavecUK

lancehedrick I had just a few days with it because they needed it back for an expo in Naples. HOpefully i’ll get my hands on it longer next time.

I’ve been checking it over today and setting it up for the Rimini Exhibition, just in case you broke it! 😉

lancehedrick

DavecUK haha! everything is beautiful on it. I did lose one screw. the back two screws accessible only from the top are near impossible to get. I dropped one when taking it off the check out the pump (there was an issue upon arrival and had to facetime Paolo). Couldn’t for the life of me find it.

DavecUK

lancehedrick I know found the back panel loose we put a new screw in it.

The particular gear pump used in the prototype is a pig to prime. I had the same issue this morning, but we went underneath to the transformer and reversed the connections there without having to open the case.

The production machine will have a rotary pump which won’t have any problems priming like that particular gear pump does.

P.S. I think the screws gone forever. 🤣

tompoland

lancehedrick I did lose one screw

That means you have to buy it now. Company policy sorry.

chlorox

lancehedrick

Hello Lance like your videos espdcially with the better production values and your new one is no exception!

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK I think the screws gone forever.

“Strange - this coffee has a metallic taste…”

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam

I really hope the new wave lever machines will force the traditional lever makers to up their game and their products or lower the price. Why must a profitec 800 or an izzo alex cost as much as they do with their simple make up ? Why not come out with more upgraded levers and then offer the traditional levers at a lower price point? Thta would be better for the consumers and widen the market further.

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam

One alternative can be to name it after Laika, the first dog in space. It’s less directly associated to Russia while still honouring the achievements of the first cosmonauts to orbit the earth which is probably the idea behind choosing vostok as the name (Gagarin is too Russian obviously)

chlorox

John_Yossarian

Well that boys father could be a fan of Greek mythology I suppose…

John_Yossarian

chlorox The father is from Cyprus …. surprise, sur😀prise

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Would the evo be substantially cheaper than 3300 euros now that the vostok is coming out? Otherwise its difficult to stop cannabilising of evo sales by the vostok and there is a need for product differentiatiion

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox I don’t know, but I don’t think so. By and large, they have the same components, particularly if ACS updates the Evo with the new features and components (pump and additional logic/controls for timed and pressure shots).

I may be completely wrong, but I don’t think they ‘cannibalise’ each other in the traditional sense; it’s a bit like saying that the 5-door version of a car cannibalises the 4- or 3-door version…

chlorox

Cuprajake

The trad levers do fluctuate with every use or flush in terms of temperature so they are more inexact. That’s fine but charging what they charge for 70 year old technology is bad for us consumers. It’s important for acs and nurri and more cpmpanies following theiir example to really make a success of the new line levers in order to make the general coffee market aware of the revolution that is going on and of the new abilities of these machines and that u don’t have to spend Leva X money to achieve it. That way the expectation and demand of consumers will hopefully require the manufacturers to add these capabilities and they become the new industry standard for premium levers. Its about time levers won back some of the market share the pumps won beginning in 1961…

chlorox

Cuprajake

Yes I think he made a factual error - is it the londonium r24 that first came out with controllable preinfusion pump pressure level for a home machine? At the least the vesuvius evo and the nurri were ahead of the vostok there.

chlorox

The automation that allows the shot to be ended automatically at pressure level that is preset is more needed for cafes and would allow for consistency at cafes so the multigroup vostok would bring kees van der westen type capabilities to cafes at a fraction of the price. That’s a big market there if they can get the marketing behind it. For me, the light is still my favourite part of the vostok - I wish all machines and grinders have this feature!

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Well the evo if improved would do exactly the same things the vostok can do so its really an older 5 door model vs a newer 5 door….Heres another thought - why is the evo needed at all now? I thought the evo was put together from existing pump machine chassis etc and thus not an ideal ground up design for lever. On the other hand the vostok one group is. So is there a need at all for the evo now that the vostok one group is coming out finally? Especially since it has the same internal parts and especially if the same capabilities will be given to the evo? The uniqueness of the vostok would be diluted by the evo…so logically either keep the evo with its more limited abilities to maintain the vistok as the premium product option in the acs range, or eliminate the evo altogether as being unnecessary now. The latter makes dven more sense if the vostok is sold at 3300 euros - there’s not a lot of room to drop the price on an evo.

chlorox

(Posted in wrong thread!)

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox Um. The chassis of the Evo (and the Vesuvius from which it comes) is extraordinarily strong; I don’t know if it costs more or less than that of the Vostok, but I don’t think it’s inferior to it in mechanical terms.

It could make sense to not offer the Evo if that resulted in any saving to ACS, but since they will keep producing the Vesuvius… (and the Minima, and the single- and multi-group Vostok), what benefit would they derive from not offering a slightly smaller machine with a different look, but requiring the same components and zero additional costs? Personally, if they both had been available a year ago, I would have gone with the Vostok, but there are people for whom the larger footprint (and the ‘outré’ looks) are no-go.

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

It seemed to me from a product marketing perspective that such a choice seems to normally be anathema to a corporation, but I’m no expert there so I’m sure acs would know what to do about that in due time

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox Plenty of examples from cars to consumer electronics going both ways… with significant success (or failure), indicating that the presence of strongly overlapping products in and of itself is not what matters.

DavecUK

chlorox ACS are not a big corporate, so they can do non corporate things and concentrate on their customers.

I also agree entirely that the more advanced levers that come out, the more others have up their game, drop their price…..or quietly fade away.

I am working (again for totally free) with another company and another advanced lever for the market. Plus I discussed another small advanced Lever concept (SAL) yesterday.

As for the whole Lance Hedrick thing I’ve deleted nothing, and fully expect some temporary disruption like we had at the beginning

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