If you haven't seen it already, @"lancehedrick"#742 has published a nice review of the upcoming Vostok 1 group on Youtube. There is no real surprise for those of us who have followed @"DavecUK"#1 's postings (and the planned improvements for this machine), but its still is a well made video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4UtmXO9zVU I'm sure this will raise interest in ACS… So well done !

some bits were a bit off in terms of correct info, but they do look a great machine. id love one but its too big. most the points picked up on davec already said, now away to spam his comments am i - haha

It's funny (and sad at the same time) to read some of the vitriolic comments on this video which remind me of what happened when the Evo Leva came to the market (probably with the same cast of characters as well!)

@"Eiffel"#p35306 Luckily though, those will not be buying it.....instead, they will continue to push the virtues of the machine they prefer. The Vostok is too complicated for me now! But, I can really see it appealing to a very wide market. Anyone who cannot handle the size, then hopefully many of the features will transfer to the Evo. Hope folks do not quickly start to copy the ideas, or that Paolo patents them correctly

Going by the video, the Vostok 1G is well priced and feature laden. The good news for us, Evo Leva owners, is that we've been able to get exactly the same results for 18 months, albeit without the automation capabilities of the newer machine… In an commercial setting, some of the added features are easier to justify (Automatic termination of shots, timers, some comfort features, etc), but for hobbyist use the upgrade, while tempting, is harder to justify… It's nice to have the choice though as the Evo Leva and Vostok 1G are both great variants of the same base design.

Looking at some of the comments on Lance's video, it's very clear some people haven't got a clue what they are talking about, and have not even bothered to watch the video! i.e.: "How is the group head connected to the brew boiler? I thought it was a dipper design." Err... One of the first things Lance explains is that the machine has 3 heat controllers: for the 2x boilers and for the group.

Question (I have asked this before, and it's in here somewhere, although a while ago). But what's the difference between the Evo and the Vostok? i.e.: Why would I buy one over the other?

well the new vostok comes in a one group, pretty sure it was just a multi group before, the new vostok has all the pressure sensor sides for shot stopping and group evacuation, it has the same boilers and and did have the same group but obs now the vostok has the modded group to allow it to vent, i presume this is just the evo group modded but could be wrong, its also bigger, and imo prettier

@"Cuprajake"#p35327 - Thanks Jake. So, in summary, a V Evo on steroids! 🙂

The Vostok 1G looks like an amazing machine. It goes a bit to far me and imo more complexity is even more stuff to potentially have issues arise with. At least, I am telling myself that so I try to not email ACS and ask to be put on the list for one (ha!) It would be nice though if the Leva had the new pump and the external pre-infusion setting. Has anyone looked at adding the barista lights to the Leva since the controller seems already set up for it?

Lance Hedrick - review of the VOSTOCK

chlorox

Cuprajake

Yes I think he made a factual error - is it the londonium r24 that first came out with controllable preinfusion pump pressure level for a home machine? At the least the vesuvius evo and the nurri were ahead of the vostok there.

chlorox

The automation that allows the shot to be ended automatically at pressure level that is preset is more needed for cafes and would allow for consistency at cafes so the multigroup vostok would bring kees van der westen type capabilities to cafes at a fraction of the price. That’s a big market there if they can get the marketing behind it. For me, the light is still my favourite part of the vostok - I wish all machines and grinders have this feature!

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox I don’t know, but I don’t think so. By and large, they have the same components, particularly if ACS updates the Evo with the new features and components (pump and additional logic/controls for timed and pressure shots).

I may be completely wrong, but I don’t think they ‘cannibalise’ each other in the traditional sense; it’s a bit like saying that the 5-door version of a car cannibalises the 4- or 3-door version…

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Well the evo if improved would do exactly the same things the vostok can do so its really an older 5 door model vs a newer 5 door….Heres another thought - why is the evo needed at all now? I thought the evo was put together from existing pump machine chassis etc and thus not an ideal ground up design for lever. On the other hand the vostok one group is. So is there a need at all for the evo now that the vostok one group is coming out finally? Especially since it has the same internal parts and especially if the same capabilities will be given to the evo? The uniqueness of the vostok would be diluted by the evo…so logically either keep the evo with its more limited abilities to maintain the vistok as the premium product option in the acs range, or eliminate the evo altogether as being unnecessary now. The latter makes dven more sense if the vostok is sold at 3300 euros - there’s not a lot of room to drop the price on an evo.

chlorox

(Posted in wrong thread!)

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox Um. The chassis of the Evo (and the Vesuvius from which it comes) is extraordinarily strong; I don’t know if it costs more or less than that of the Vostok, but I don’t think it’s inferior to it in mechanical terms.

It could make sense to not offer the Evo if that resulted in any saving to ACS, but since they will keep producing the Vesuvius… (and the Minima, and the single- and multi-group Vostok), what benefit would they derive from not offering a slightly smaller machine with a different look, but requiring the same components and zero additional costs? Personally, if they both had been available a year ago, I would have gone with the Vostok, but there are people for whom the larger footprint (and the ‘outré’ looks) are no-go.

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

It seemed to me from a product marketing perspective that such a choice seems to normally be anathema to a corporation, but I’m no expert there so I’m sure acs would know what to do about that in due time

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox Plenty of examples from cars to consumer electronics going both ways… with significant success (or failure), indicating that the presence of strongly overlapping products in and of itself is not what matters.

DavecUK

chlorox ACS are not a big corporate, so they can do non corporate things and concentrate on their customers.

I also agree entirely that the more advanced levers that come out, the more others have up their game, drop their price…..or quietly fade away.

I am working (again for totally free) with another company and another advanced lever for the market. Plus I discussed another small advanced Lever concept (SAL) yesterday.

As for the whole Lance Hedrick thing I’ve deleted nothing, and fully expect some temporary disruption like we had at the beginning

HanceLedrick

Lance always does a great job with his videos.

Cuprajake

Just an FYI on social media lance has stated he will no longer visit the forum,

Undoubtedly we will now see an influx of haters, looking to disrupt.

Perhaps that was the intention of those who went out of their way to speak with lance, alas, being ghosted so we can’t explain.

Sorry peeps

chlorox

Cuprajake

Thats a pity if lance hedrick isnt posting anymore here…Was there some posts that have been removed from this thread that I didn’t see? Where did this exchange of posts happen?

punkypj

Cuprajake Lance is completely right though, i blocked that user on cfuk and I blocked him on here so I thankfully don’t have to read those posts. It can make following a thread challenging sometimes though.

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox I think it was on the “Gorilla Gear” for the Niche thread. As far as I know, all still there.

Cuprajake

In the gorilla gears thread

Agree shame for THIS forum

We can’t all agree all the time, but it doesn’t help when people app from THIS forum are telling tales.

tompoland

Cheez Louise. This is getting unbelievable.

Cuprajake

punkypj best way, if you’re not a fan, just block its what i do

re my post sometime humor doesn’t come across in typing, my post was tongue in cheek, i didn’t for one second even think about previous history as that was nearly 2 years ago. and something i thought had finally settled down, sadly i see that its still very alive and kicking.

i thought the forum was nice, friendly and very active, maybe people don’t want that or dont want that to succeed, i dunno, its really soured the whole experience for me, if people feel i was part of it, i apologize, nothing i say is done with any intention to hurt people, i genuinely try to help people when i can, you know like giving free stuff away 🥰

dutchy101

Think there’s a huge difference between having a disagreement with a forum member and then publicly slating a forum and calling it toxic, especially when you have the level of following Lance has. Pretty uncalled for. For what it’s worth, I thought Lance had handled the situation well on here, but there was absolutely no need for what he’s done on Instagram.

LMSC

IMHO, subsequent posts went too far and not drawing a line. The insta post was shocking. 🤷🤦‍♂️

Let’s move on please!

dutchy101

LMSC IMHO, subsequent posts went too far and not drawing a line

Reading back the last couple of posts you are right - forgot about some of the later posts when I posted my message earlier.

chlorox

Cuprajake

I have no idea about what the past history that is being referred here was about, being a new member here.

I am merely commenting with just the knowledge of reading the altercation between Hedrick and that other member.

The problem was I believe two fold - first, it was that other member of this forum who basically made serious allegations involving dishonesty against Hedrick just because he was unable to accept Hedrick’s explanation about a power brick being edited out by his cameraman, and second, it was what Hedrick perceived to be this community’s lack of support of him to tell that chap off for his behaviour and for actually seeming to even facilitate that guy’s behaviour. Your joke unfortunately sounded to Hedrick like you were saying that he had a right to make such serious allegations against other members of this forum at will. I am not saying you meant to say that, but Hedrick had a right to be aggrieved, and he was aggrieved, and it was a very sensitive time to be making a joke like that in circs where there is no facial expressions or gestures that can communicate a different intention.

If this forum is supposed to be the nice and friendly place that it is meant to be, people need to act in a nice and friendly way - and when they do not, it is for the moderator to step in to make that abundantly clear to the errant member thathe has crossed the line, and other members need to stand up for that principle and tell the not so nice member (and not the person who was wronged) to be nice. Otherwise the value to be nice and friendly is just a piece of theory that is not going to happen……that’s just my two pence worth on this issue…

Systemic

Coffeetime was set up precisely to avoid what happened on CFUK - I was a moderator on that forum until it was sold to the Canadian company. So, I am in a unique position knowing what was happening both front of house and behind the scenes. Sadly, narratives got pushed, stretched and, at times, misrepresented and distorted.

We don’t want or need that on this forum.

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