May be launching on Kickstarter Mid March and at USD $1.5k. A hybrid with a little bit of Decent and a little bit of Strietman. https://youtu.be/N-dxaLZTfGc At that price I'd probably back it. With four temperature sensors, built in scale, stop by weight, and more, it looks very well thought out. Seems to be a fully functioning working prototype which is encouraging. I would like to see a dedicated tablet with stand (like the Decent) on top to avoid having to hold it by hand. But that is easy enough with a tablet stand. Tom like.

That looks good! I was talking to a friend yesterday about something similar - I haven't seen this before, mind - Where for a compact version of the Nurri or the V Evo, you could have one boiler holding water under pressure for steam purposes. Then a heat exchanger would fill the group, but would also mix cold water with it. As the group is heated and with a sensor in it, the user could see the temperature of the water inside the piston in real time. Once it reaches the set temperature and it's stable, the user can simply release the lever and pull the shot -this would then make the brew boiler redundant. I'm no engineer, so I don't even know if that's even a possibility. But it would be a really neat machine. I'd be all over it.

@"tompoland"#p36554 Forgive me mate but where is the Strietman bit??

@"Amberale"#p36560 The group (that you fill in manually with a kettle) resembles the Strietman, in my opinion.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p36561 Have you got an approximate time in the video? I couldn't be stuffed watching them carry on for 30 minutes with a phone/tablet.

> @"tompoland"#p36554 I would like to see a dedicated tablet with stand (like the Decent) on top to avoid having to hold it by hand. But that is easy enough with a tablet stand. As an accountant, I applaud their effort to make their software compatible with all the mainstream tablets and thereby avoid the not insignificant cost of providing a dedicated tablet and so keeping the overall price lower. I like it a lot; but not having a boiler, it is not able to do steam, which could be a downer for those liking milky drinks?

> @"jrling"#p36578 which could be a downer for those liking milky drinks? Good point. Definitely a downer for milk coffee drinkers. Like the Strietman or Flair. Espresso only. Some buy separate milk heater/frothers but it's not ideal. PS different makes/models of tablets can be used with the Decent too.

@"tompoland"#p36580 Can you imagine a world where you would sell your CT2 to own this?

@"Amberale"#p36583 not with the Decent and a Nurri sitting on my bench either side of the Streitman. Not trying to be a smart xxrse, it's just that the Meticulous wouldn't really bring anything extra to the bench. It really does look terrific and if I didn't have the Decent it would be seriously tempting. All of which is to say that I've thought about it more since my original post and I won't be backing it. Having had a lot of machines and grinders come and go, I'm going to settle down for a while, I hope. (Other than a couple on pre-order being the Argos and x-Bloom 😀 )

Meticulous

chlorox

Raja123

Of course i agree that dif people see what is acceptable as being diff and that assessment and what people are happy with is entirely subjective in nature. However in terms of the full function of a particular machine, that can be determined objectively.

chlorox

dfk41

It’s not that the review has to be biased. It is that WE as humans and social creatures are invariably biased. We have inherent cognitive biases.

https://www.verywellmind.com/cognitive-biases-distort-thinking-2794763

We also are inclined to identify to groups and to adhere to group think which brings its own set of biases and distorted thinking.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-groupthink-2795213

These are by no means exhaustive but just what come to mind to me at present. But the point is the way we think and the illusions we live under have been exposed and explored by psychologists for the better part of a century and the idea of the dispassionate totally rational thinker has long been shown to be a naive one…

Cuprajake

It’s a coffee grinder not a medical degree..

We as a community prob a thousand active users across multiple forums are the very end of the scale.

Look at the success of the niche, you don’t see half those users on forums.

We are a tiny proportion of end users.

Move on now all this arguing is just going round in circles like it usually does.

Let’s just wait to July/August when these products hit peoples actual coffee counters.

DavecUK

Cuprajake Move on now all this arguing is just going round in circles like it usually does.

Let’s just wait to July/August when these products hit peoples actual coffee counters.

That’s usually the best test, when the product reaches ordinary users. Nowadays many all coffee products are hyped up when they launch…think back to how many of them we don’t hear anything about now.

Also techniques change and thus new equipment comes out to support “new wave” thinking. About 15 years ago people laughed at me when I said I used to pull espresso over an ice cube or two….now we have frozen balls?? The one thing for sure is things are going to change…sometimes it’s good sometimes it’s bad and that’s how we learn. The 70s won’t come back, but at the time we all thought the fashions and car colours were great, the world turned and beige was out…Coffee is no different.

giampiero

As Italian, i would never laughed at you, just for pouring espresso over few ice cubes….i was doing the same probably 30/40 years ago, but not for scientific reason…..i was simply preparing to my self a Shakerato🤣

DavecUK

giampiero As Italian, i would never laughed at you, just for pouring espresso over few ice cubes….i was doing the same probably 30/40 years ago, but not for scientific reason…..i was simply preparing to my self a Shakerato🤣

Tutto bene then.

MWJB

giampiero The idea with the frozen whisky stones/balls/cup/portafilter is that it is supposed to retain otherwise lost volatile aromatics, without chilling the beverage, or diluting it, as ice would.

tompoland

DavecUK I agree it would be quite seamless.

And to be fair, most Decent users seem to use one or two presets/profiles only. It’s a small minority who need out.

But the other useful aspect of the tablet is to view pressure, temp and flow in real time on the tablet. If nothing else it’s fascinating.

DavecUK

tompoland But the other useful aspect of the tablet is to view pressure, temp and flow in real time on the tablet. If nothing else it’s fascinating.

I think the little display on the meticulous seems to show quite a lot of info. I actually quite like the little OLED (?) display and presumably a turn and push digi knob.

MattH

Another video from I think the Portland coffee expo… just in case anyone was interested.

Sham

dfk41

tompoland

Cuprajake

Do you know of any youtubers who go through the technical mechanical/electronics/controls systems side of espresso in quite a bit of detail? Recently this guy (embedded engineer, currently working in bellwether coffee systems) popped up who does little projects which I enjoy watching and learning. Anyone know anyone else who does similar or something similar with existing machines?

tompoland

Sham Sham saw his pull down of the xBloom which was interesting. There is Jonathan Gagnes (astrophysicist - don’t even know how to spell that!) but don’t know if he is on youtube and Rpbert who wrote the book on data driven espresso and is here https://www.youtube.com/@espressofun6091

DavecUK

Sham Do you know of any youtubers who go through the technical mechanical/electronics/controls systems side of espresso in quite a bit of detail?

No, I used to, but I do less of it know as Tom says, it doesn’t get views, so it means a lot of work for nothing.

Even this simple video has had only 1000 views…surprising considering most people have no idea how this stuff works.

Cuprajake

I’ve not seen many, I’ve seen his channel before as I’ve shared it with a friend. Who’s into tech.

Sadly it doesn’t seem that that side of things get views 🤣 I prefer those types, there’s wired gourmet.

Sham

Thanks, I’ll check these out 🙂

dfk41

Thomas Greene, aka The Wired Gourmet does technical pull downs rather than the usual waffle most influencers produce

DavecUK

dfk41 Thomas Greene, aka The Wired Gourmet does technical pull downs rather than the usual waffle most influencers produce

It would be quite instructive to see a proper review of the prototype Meticulous unit!

dfk41

DavecUK Nae chance of that happening matey. They seem only to want to promote it, not review it or make it better.

DavecUK

dfk41 Nae chance of that happening matey. They seem only to want to promote it, not review it or make it better.

For sure, it has not gone anywhere where it’s actually going to get properly reviewed!

Raja123

There aren’t many manufacturers that send products to users for outright review purposes. Beta testing perhaps, but not for outright reviews. From the looks of it, isn’t that how you already work with most vendors that want your feedback, Dave (as a beta tester that doesn’t post full product reviews)?

dfk41

Raja123 Niche sent The Wired Gourmet a Duo and he does not do influencer style reviews. He says exactly what he finds, but……the Duo had been in existence for 17 months being refined all the time then sent to beta testers like myself in October last year for further tweaking…..before he received it

DavecUK

Raja123 There aren’t many manufacturers that send products to users for outright review purposes. Beta testing perhaps, but not for outright reviews. From the looks of it, isn’t that how you already work with most vendors that want your feedback, Dave (as a beta tester that doesn’t post full product reviews)?

A lot of manufacturers are not really interested in constructive criticism, or receptive to changing their product to get it right after their initial design. Others are just frightened to do it.

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