I've not got my machine yet (Minima), but will be getting it as early in 2022 as I can. My plan is to use Lockhills for the time being. I can't get into RO at the moment for a while host of reasons, but might do down the line (years, not months). Is Lockhills still considered okay for espresso machines (I know it isn't perfect)? It is a lot easier for me to get than Ashbeck. I also can't seem to find anything on how to descale a machine. I know the best advice is to avoid needing to, but I'm going to have to for a while. Is there a recommended approach/ process to follow? Cheers

It's probably the best bottled water. You'll need to descale the service boiler though, a fairly simple task however you do it (removing fixture or just filling with the pump).

Thank you for the quick reply @"Rob1"#171 , that's great. I like the idea of filling the service boiler directly and so not having the descalling stuff running around the whole machine. I'll give it some more thought whilst I am getting prepared.

> @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2194 I like the idea of filling the service boiler directly and so not having the descalling stuff running around the whole machine. I’ll give it some more thought whilst I am getting prepared. As long as you **don't engage the brew switch** until descaling is completely finished and the steam boiler refreshed with water a few times to remove all descaler, n**o descaler should enter the brew boiler…** It's easier than removing fittings…just takes a bit longer.

Thanks @"DavecUK"#p2204 Just so I am clear - do you mean you'd switch the brew and steam boilers on (leaving the brew switch well alone) put the descaler in the water tank, run the HW tap to then pull the descaler into the steam boiler, let it do it's thing, then flush with lots of clean water (through the HW tap) before brewing again.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2209 Yes, exactly

Got to admit I have only ever used Ashbeck, but still descale on a regular basis just as a matter of course. However, I would be interested to hear from other members here what they consider the best water (bottled) to be as far as keeping the scale issue to a minimum…Oh, and of course for taste.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2194 Should say really Lockhills will scale in the brew boiler too very slightly. Ideally, you could mix it with something to decrease alkalinity and hardness a bit more e.g. dow to 40mg/l alkalinity using something like a zero water jug, then it wouldn't scale the brew boiler. It's still the best IMO as I wouldn't use ashbeck. You'll avoid scale in the brew boiler as is with that one but it has low alkalinity (not great for taste). Adding potassium bicarb to ashbeck is an option too.

Thanks @"Rob1"#p2289 When you say > @"Rob1"#p2289 You’ll avoid scale in the brew boiler as is with that one but it has low alkalinity (not great for taste). Adding potassium bicarb to ashbeck is an option too. "As is with that one" - what do you mean? It sounds like you might be saying if I use Ashbeck and add potassium bicarb I'd avoid brew boiler scale and deal with the taste issue. But I am not sure that's what you mean.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2294 I mean 'as is' as in without adding anything to it but alkalinity is really low so you can get around it by adding potassium bicarb to avoid increasing sodium.

@"Rob1"#171, what dose of Potassium Bicarbonate would you add to a 5 litre bottle of Ashbeck ?

Bottled Water and Descalling Espresso Machine

Java_avaJ

@Rob1 you’re a hero, thank you.

dutchy101

Retested my water today after adding the additional sodium bicarbonate. It was 10 drops until the 20ml of water turned yellow = 179 /4 = 44.75 mg/l. Think my water is good to go just in time for Minima delivery tomorrow.

dutchy101

I should also say a huge thanks to @Rob1, @LMSC & @MWJB for their advice and spoon feeding this imbecile through all of this. I was worried I’d be returning the Minima under the grounds of being too stupid to own one for a while there lol.

LMSC

dutchy101 Glad it is working out for you. Every one requires assistance. You are not alone! 😊

Frothbewithyou

Can I ask a water related question (without starting a new thread).

What is the best way to improve water quality from the tap without using bottled water? (No budge on that wife is adamant) Or is there even any point?

My water quality is surprisingly good (or so I’m told by someone on another forum) 38.7 - max 140 with an average reading of 75.6 CaCO3 m/l taken from 10 samples. (40-80mg/L alkalinity they said)

MWJB

Frothbewithyou Your water seems pretty good, if you wanted to monitor it & keep it in a certain range you could either filter it with/cut it with BWT Mg+ filtered water if necessary.

Best to ascertain what it actually is with a drop kit.

DavecUK

Frothbewithyou It’s worth mentioning there’s a lot of other stuff in tapwater that ideally needs removing. Chlorine, Flouride, particulates, sometimes the river water smell. Quality varies throughout the year.

Frothbewithyou

I’ll invest in a drop kit and go from there 💪👌

LMSC

@DavecUK

Do you keep the mineralisation catridge on the Osmio Zero? Like in your case, it feeds the coffee machine, serves the kitchen and drinking. The catridge improves the taste of the RO as a drinking water.

Alexvs

LMSC You’ve just asked a very timely question and similar to what I was looking for. I’ve had a chat with the friendly people at Osmio who recommended the zero after stating my needs as was also looking at under sink filtration. Would I need to do anything to the water coming out of the zero or can I just pour straight into my Minima?

We use a Brita filter jug for our drinking water and go through maybe ⅚ larger drinking bottles of water a day so want it to be for drinking water/juice as well as the Minima, despite the wife thinking I only care about my coffee machine now and not our health lol. I’m hoping the mineralisation cartridge would be sufficient as really want a hands-off water solution. I’d like to not be on bottled water for long term with plastic wasteage and all that jazz.

DavecUK

LMSC Do you keep the mineralisation catridge on the Osmio Zero? Like in your case, it feeds the coffee machine, serves the kitchen and drinking. The catridge improves the taste of the RO as a drinking water.

I do, it doesn’t add back much…but it’s enough.

dutchy101

Alexvs

I am currently using a zero water filter jug, which I suspect will give the same water as reverse osmosis. I am adding some sodium bicarbonate to raise the alkalinity. I am adding 320mg to 5 litres of zero water which brings the alkalinity into the right zone (I think it is suggested you need to add something like 67mg of sodium bicarbonate per litre of zero water if you wanted to make up less.

Alexvs

dutchy101 That’s a bit too much work for me and the wife already thinks I’ve lost it and obsessed with coffee. She’ll give in to the zero I think as read lots of users who just use the mineralisation filter and are happy with the water.

MWJB

dutchy101 The Zerowater jug takes pretty much everything out of the water, more than RO (unless the RO is followed by DI resin filter). But it is much, much slower.

Enea_

dutchy101

Interesting recipe!

I use tap water (250 TDS before filtering), the Zero filter and an 8L Kilner jar with a metal tap. I add 0.7g of Sodium Bicarbonate per 8 litres (0.0875g/L) and 1.6g of magnesium per 8L (0.2g/L), this gives me a TDS of around 110 (my aim is to stay between 100 & 140). Water tastes great for drinking and coffee, I arrived to the amount of Sodium Bicarbonate and Magnesium by adjusting until it tasted right to me (& my better half). We’re two in the house and the jug will last about 3-4 days, Zero filter lasts about 20-25 days.

Rob1

Enea_

Do you put that in an espresso machine or just use it for immersion/pour over etc???

Alkalinity is 52mg/l and Hardness is approx 82mg/l assuming you’ve used Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate.

Enea_

Rob1

I use it for my espresso machine. Haven’t had to de-scale in about 2 years. Use Epsom salts for magnesium. Do you think I need to adjust the recipe?

Rob1

How do you decide when you need to descale?

JahLaza

Anyone know anything about these? Cheaper solution than the osmio zero!

https://eur.vevor.com/alcohol-distiller-c_10688/4l-water-distiller-purifier-stainless-steel-pure-water-filter-medical-home-labs-p_010684350944

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza - that’s a distiller. A very different thing from the Osmio Zero.

It boils the water, the vapour is caught in a condenser. All the minerals are left behind, only water ends up on the other side.

The process is highly inefficient. It takes 5 hours to distil 3.5L of water.

You have to remineralise the water yourself as, it is, tastes of nothing (as distilled water should).

I only use a distiller because no one else in my household will drink from an Osmio Zero (they rather drink from the tap… go figure).

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