I've not got my machine yet (Minima), but will be getting it as early in 2022 as I can. My plan is to use Lockhills for the time being. I can't get into RO at the moment for a while host of reasons, but might do down the line (years, not months). Is Lockhills still considered okay for espresso machines (I know it isn't perfect)? It is a lot easier for me to get than Ashbeck. I also can't seem to find anything on how to descale a machine. I know the best advice is to avoid needing to, but I'm going to have to for a while. Is there a recommended approach/ process to follow? Cheers

It's probably the best bottled water. You'll need to descale the service boiler though, a fairly simple task however you do it (removing fixture or just filling with the pump).

Thank you for the quick reply @"Rob1"#171 , that's great. I like the idea of filling the service boiler directly and so not having the descalling stuff running around the whole machine. I'll give it some more thought whilst I am getting prepared.

> @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2194 I like the idea of filling the service boiler directly and so not having the descalling stuff running around the whole machine. I’ll give it some more thought whilst I am getting prepared. As long as you **don't engage the brew switch** until descaling is completely finished and the steam boiler refreshed with water a few times to remove all descaler, n**o descaler should enter the brew boiler…** It's easier than removing fittings…just takes a bit longer.

Thanks @"DavecUK"#p2204 Just so I am clear - do you mean you'd switch the brew and steam boilers on (leaving the brew switch well alone) put the descaler in the water tank, run the HW tap to then pull the descaler into the steam boiler, let it do it's thing, then flush with lots of clean water (through the HW tap) before brewing again.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2209 Yes, exactly

Got to admit I have only ever used Ashbeck, but still descale on a regular basis just as a matter of course. However, I would be interested to hear from other members here what they consider the best water (bottled) to be as far as keeping the scale issue to a minimum…Oh, and of course for taste.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2194 Should say really Lockhills will scale in the brew boiler too very slightly. Ideally, you could mix it with something to decrease alkalinity and hardness a bit more e.g. dow to 40mg/l alkalinity using something like a zero water jug, then it wouldn't scale the brew boiler. It's still the best IMO as I wouldn't use ashbeck. You'll avoid scale in the brew boiler as is with that one but it has low alkalinity (not great for taste). Adding potassium bicarb to ashbeck is an option too.

Thanks @"Rob1"#p2289 When you say > @"Rob1"#p2289 You’ll avoid scale in the brew boiler as is with that one but it has low alkalinity (not great for taste). Adding potassium bicarb to ashbeck is an option too. "As is with that one" - what do you mean? It sounds like you might be saying if I use Ashbeck and add potassium bicarb I'd avoid brew boiler scale and deal with the taste issue. But I am not sure that's what you mean.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2294 I mean 'as is' as in without adding anything to it but alkalinity is really low so you can get around it by adding potassium bicarb to avoid increasing sodium.

@"Rob1"#171, what dose of Potassium Bicarbonate would you add to a 5 litre bottle of Ashbeck ?

Bottled Water and Descalling Espresso Machine

dutchy101

Alexvs

I am currently using a zero water filter jug, which I suspect will give the same water as reverse osmosis. I am adding some sodium bicarbonate to raise the alkalinity. I am adding 320mg to 5 litres of zero water which brings the alkalinity into the right zone (I think it is suggested you need to add something like 67mg of sodium bicarbonate per litre of zero water if you wanted to make up less.

Alexvs

dutchy101 That’s a bit too much work for me and the wife already thinks I’ve lost it and obsessed with coffee. She’ll give in to the zero I think as read lots of users who just use the mineralisation filter and are happy with the water.

MWJB

dutchy101 The Zerowater jug takes pretty much everything out of the water, more than RO (unless the RO is followed by DI resin filter). But it is much, much slower.

Enea_

dutchy101

Interesting recipe!

I use tap water (250 TDS before filtering), the Zero filter and an 8L Kilner jar with a metal tap. I add 0.7g of Sodium Bicarbonate per 8 litres (0.0875g/L) and 1.6g of magnesium per 8L (0.2g/L), this gives me a TDS of around 110 (my aim is to stay between 100 & 140). Water tastes great for drinking and coffee, I arrived to the amount of Sodium Bicarbonate and Magnesium by adjusting until it tasted right to me (& my better half). We’re two in the house and the jug will last about 3-4 days, Zero filter lasts about 20-25 days.

Rob1

Enea_

Do you put that in an espresso machine or just use it for immersion/pour over etc???

Alkalinity is 52mg/l and Hardness is approx 82mg/l assuming you’ve used Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate.

Enea_

Rob1

I use it for my espresso machine. Haven’t had to de-scale in about 2 years. Use Epsom salts for magnesium. Do you think I need to adjust the recipe?

Rob1

How do you decide when you need to descale?

JahLaza

Anyone know anything about these? Cheaper solution than the osmio zero!

https://eur.vevor.com/alcohol-distiller-c_10688/4l-water-distiller-purifier-stainless-steel-pure-water-filter-medical-home-labs-p_010684350944

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza - that’s a distiller. A very different thing from the Osmio Zero.

It boils the water, the vapour is caught in a condenser. All the minerals are left behind, only water ends up on the other side.

The process is highly inefficient. It takes 5 hours to distil 3.5L of water.

You have to remineralise the water yourself as, it is, tastes of nothing (as distilled water should).

I only use a distiller because no one else in my household will drink from an Osmio Zero (they rather drink from the tap… go figure).

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam no one else in my household will drink from an Osmio Zero (they rather drink from the tap… go figure).

Wow!

Did they drink the water from Osmio Zero before ? A couple of weeks, I would have thought any one to convert.

My daughter rolled her eyes when she heard I had spent £350+. She became a big fan on day 1. My wife was terribly disappointed and wasn’t happy I had spent a lot of money for a water filter. After a week, she said the best investment we ever made! 😂

JahLaza

yeah very true, they’re both very different systems alright.5 hours a bit of a wait but I think if one was just using it for the espresso machine it would be an ok solution, add some bicarbonate back in

LMSC

JahLaza If you don’t want to spend money on Osmio Zero, consider Zero. You can add bicarb as some have done here.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC Did they drink the water from Osmio Zero before ? A couple of weeks, I would have thought any one to convert.

No, they haven’t. I’d love to buy one, but I fear it would be only me drinking, and, knowing my wife, she won’t touch it either, and make a point that the tap water is just fine. 🤷

If I were to buy one, I’d maybe drink one or two litres a day from it. Problem is, as soon as I go back to the office, I’d drink even less from it. So yeah, it’s distiller for me, for the time being at least.

JahLaza

LMSC I actually have one, bought it last may or something, apologies I may have been a bit misleading with the post! Yes I love it, has replaced the kettle, my girlfriend uses it all the time too. I started to notice the smell of chlorine from the tap water the day after I first started using it which I hadn’t noticed prior to that! I leave the remineralisation cartridge in place and don’t have to worry about the espresso machine water

LMSC

JahLaza Ah. All good. I was probably blind-sighted and didn’t even see your signature! Getting older! 😂

Are you then looking to buy a distilled as well?

JahLaza

LMSC No no, the osmio is here to stay! I was just inquisitive browsing there and thought that would be a reasonable option if just for feeding the espresso machine.If I was starting again, maybe I would consider something like that. there’s a fair price difference, but of course the osmio is a one stop for everything and the produce is there on demand as opposed to waiting 3 hours or whatever

LMSC

JahLaza Agree. It was an easy decision for us, despite the one-off outlay. What amazes me, hope folks don’t get me wrong, are the discussions / hesitations on the cost of filter replacements when we spend at least thousands on espresso kits. Even, IMO, a one-off investment for a unit like this is worth it compared to the hassles of scales; add the potential health benefits. 😊

Rob1

I use a distiller. It’s the most consistent method as output isn’t affected by changes to the supply. It is inefficient though and you have to obviously distill a batch in advance.

Waitforme

I decided to test my water , both tap and Ashbeck with 20mg of Bicarbonate of Soda added per 5l.

The first pic below shows my tap water giving a reading of 5 drops per 20ml equating to 2.5 German Total hardness (44.8mg/l) and 2 drops per 20ml giving a German Carbonate hardness of 1 (17.8mg/l).

The second pic is Ashbeck with 20mg of Bicarbonate of Soda per 5l giving a reading of 7 drops per 20ml equating to German total hardness of 3.5 ( 62mg/l ) and 4 drops per 20ml giving of German Carbonate hardness of 2 ( 36.6mg/l )

I’m thinking that taste aside, I’d be better using my tap water ?

Anyone ?

DavecUK

Waitforme If you like the taste of Chlorine, rust etc.. sure.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK If you like the taste of Chlorine, rust etc.. sure.

Waitforme I’m thinking that taste aside, I’d be better using my tap water ?

He did say “taste aside”… ;-)

@Rob1 is the resident expert.

I have no idea.

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