Shipping July released today. it could of course be an April fools joke. Albeit a strange one… https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43187239846019

@"Igm45"#p40972 Not an April fools joke….people have ordered.

Some time to launch! 😏 I see from the specs that it's physically bigger than the Zero….assuming this is - at least in part - to house a bigger motor for the flats?

I still believe it's April fool's, too good to be true….

@"[unknown]"#p41017 Have you seen he full manual you can download and read ?

@"MattH"#p41026 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2076/2450/files/N685_INSTRUCTION_BOOK_ROW_83F_1_080323_WEB.pdf?v=1680015642

Two excellent videos from Jake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdyBJ7TkhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90i5RVoBpo

@"DavecUK"#p41257 There are a couple of others there now too. (why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

> @"Del_UK"#p41290 (why does the plug change colour 🤔???) Dunno? RH Lead swaps colour as well in the starting clip

Can I chuck my hat into the ring? Right, first off, this is not an engineering review. I was lucky enough to be asked by Niche back in October, to accept the latest version of the Niche Duo. I had to sign an NDA and that was that. A couple of days later, a package turned up and I thought, I recognise that. On inspecting the packaging, it is quite clearly designed with the Zero experience in mind. The packaging has instructions printed on it for starters. Once you open the outer box, there is a strap/handle to help you lift the inner box meaning that you do not have to tip it upside down to force it out! I received a gleaming white model that arrived with espresso burrs fitted to it. A quick glance through the comprehensive handbook to make sure that there was nothing I needed to be aware of, and coffee here we come! When I dial in a new grinder, I always pull the first shot at whatever it arrives set to and take my reference from there. The third shot was spot on. 16 gms on an espresso setting takes me 16 seconds. I did not suffer from any static, the grounds were nice and fluffy. I believe the burrs originate from Mazzer (both espresso and brewed). Eventually, I thought it was time to try swapping the burrs over. Again, no help from Niche. They selected me as tester for their idiots instructions, and I feel well qualified for that role. I have made a video that I will post and it took me 70 seconds or so to swap over. You raise the lid, unscrew the silver dial, remove the screw to tighten down the top burr set, then remove it. Push down on the bottom burr set and remove. The process is then repeated with the brewed burrs (these are a different colour, blue) in reverse of course. I am deliberately keeping this summary vague! I have no idea as to how they get a big flat to be retention free. Having swapped the burrs over many times, and since access allows with ease, whenever I clean it out the retention is minimal. If I remember I will weigh it at some point but as any Niche Zero owners knows, you learn to trust your machine and just accept the claims! https://youtu.be/63Iv5gUy1JQ https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqlKJZjg_ZPsfdrHkp5cDIoL_KjSXhE5E5st-00/?igshid=Mzc1MmZhNjY=

@"Del_UK"#p41290 because I have a white extension lead, which I took out of the vid 😂

Niche duo - 83mm flat

MWJB

tompoland I use a Zero for filter only, I don’t find any issues with it.

tompoland

Yes I’m aware of that. And others use the Zero for filter too and are happy with it. More power to all of you.

But I was offering my opinion as requested.

I’ve got two Zeroes, multiple conicals and God only knows how many flat burrs at the moment.

I prefer filter profile flats for filter and espresso profile flats for any espresso medium or lighter.

For me, the Duo is worth the extra but that’s because the majority of my coffee is milk free.

Platypus

It appears this grinder is really well aligned which is fantastic, especially if burr swapping . Can I ask if this would be a constant throughout the life of the grinder or would this alter with use, age etc and therefore possibly require the need to shim down the line? Thanks

DavecUK

Platypus Can I ask if this would be a constant throughout the life of the grinder or would this alter with use, age etc and therefore possibly require the need to shim down the line? Thanks

No one can no for sure, as things will wear with age, but it’s been designed to maintain alignment (for as long as possible). This is done by virtue of the interlocked carrier design, and the chamber floor bearing mount design. Plus keeping a minimum unsupported burr carrier shaft distance. The only time you will have to re-zero it and find the “sweet spot” (best position for the top carrier), is if you remove the burrs from the carrier and replace them. If you just mark the position, then remove/replace the same ones (for whatever reason?), then you won’t have to do a re-zero etc..

JHCCoffee

Cuprajake the duo is a cracking grinder, and while with a medium choclatey bean you will get a bit more out of it, is it worth selling 2 zero’s no,

same bean in milk with the zero vs duo is like dark choc (z) vs milks choc (d)

One thing I notice is that I often don’t get enough separation of flavour. By that, I mean flavour complexity or nuance. My drinks taste decent but I can’t consistently point to a specific flavour nuance (that I like). Sometimes (on a good day) I get a flavour that I like that persists beyond the finish (I term this “flavour length”). Periodically I get in a groove and a bunch of shots in a row have good separation of flavour, have tastes I like and flavour length. It’s a consistentcy thing. In-between those good shots (say 2 or 3 out of 10) is a fair bit of tweaking to get back to the good shots. FYI I tend to drink milk drinks because my straight espresso shots are not sweet enough.

Perhaps when I eventually acquire a lever machine and/or complete my flow profiling dimmer mod to the Lelit E, things will improve.

Sorry to weave off topic. It’s my long winded way of asking if a change of grinder (from an NZ to a Duo, or ??) will help?

LMSC

JHCCoffee Milk is going to hide the fruity acidity and flavours, IMO. Of course, chocolate and nutty flavours shine thru’! You drink decaf. If yes, most of them are going to be the south of medium (ie medium dark and dark).

Sorry, if you have already answered. Where do you live please?

I think Jake already answered your question re-zero or Duo. 😊

JHCCoffee

LMSC Milk is going to hide the fruity acidity and flavours, IMO. Of course, chocolate and nutty flavours shine thru’! You drink decaf. If yes, most of them are going to be the south of medium (ie medium dark and dark).

Sorry, if you have already answered. Where do you live please?

Yes I drink decaf; generally medium (City) to medium dark (City+) roasts. And yes, the chocolate and caramel does shine through. I drink very little light (I don’t enjoy the fruit tastes, but maybe I might one day develop a taste).

I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

tompoland

Question for anyone but one that @DavecUK will likely know the answer.

Is there typically a difference in the top and bottom burrs of a flat burr set?

If there is, how does one tell the difference?

Thanks.

DavecUK

tompoland Is there typically a difference in the top and bottom burrs of a flat burr set?

Not to the best of my knowledge (at least none I’ve noticed), how could it make any difference? Grinders come in all sorts of orientations you know 45 degrees inclined horizontal completely vertical, and they run all sorts of speeds so it’s difficult for me to see how a top or bottom positioning of the burr makes any real difference.

I will have a closer examination of my s s p burr sets to see if there’s any differences I can see.

FadedFrontiers

tompoland only flat burrs with major differences that I’ve spotted have been Fellow Ode v 1 and 1.1 brew burrs which have finishing teeth of different heights for top and bottom that effectively interlock. Unlike SSP they don’t have labels to say which one is fixed or which is rotary.

Cuprajake

@tompoland my SSP had top and bottom marked on them, I never really looked closely at them.

DavecUK

FadedFrontiers only flat burrs with major differences that I’ve spotted have been Fellow Ode v 1 and 1.1 brew burrs which have finishing teeth of different heights for top and bottom that effectively interlock. Unlike SSP they don’t have labels to say which one is fixed or which is rotary.

So in vertically orientated burrs, which is top and bottom?

FadedFrontiers

DavecUK they are vertically oriented for Ode but they don’t state which one should go where, I suppose they don’t seem to think (or care if) there’s a difference

DavecUK

FadedFrontiers they are vertically oriented for Ode but they don’t state which one should go where, I suppose they don’t seem to think (or care if) there’s a difference

I know, the point was 2 identical SSP burrs have a top and bottom marking, which was an earlier question by Tom. Even if the burrs were not identical, how would it matter?

Or moving burr, non moving burr…it’s all relative. The non moving burr doesn’t know it’s stationary relative to the top burr…could be the whole grinder is spinning around the stationary bottom burr, or the bottom burr is spinning…it’s the same thing.

FadedFrontiers

DavecUK I know, the point was 2 identical SSP burrs have a top and bottom marking, which was an earlier question by Tom. Even if the burrs were not identical, how would it matter?

Yeah I can’t see how it would matter, I mention the Ode burrs as he asked if there’s typically any difference, and they’re the only ones I’ve observed that haven’t looked identical to one another.

Edit: apparently some burrs including SSPs brew burrs have more teeth on one burr than on the other.

Dusk Would “top” be the one that the beans feed through?

It will vary by grinder but yeah for a lot of horizontally mounted flat burr grinders the top will be stationary where the beans go through - but its job shouldn’t differ from the bottom burr except that one is moving.

Dusk

Would “top” be the one that the beans feed through?

MediumRoastSteam

Dusk - Don’t think the concept of a “feeding burr” equivalent to conicals applies to flat burr grinders. My understanding is that the beans are guided through the middle of the burr and centrifugal forces will push them against the edges, feeding through the inner edge of the burr set and ground coffee existing through the outer edge of the burr set.

I think Dave explained in one of his posts how they work - and that’s what I vaguely remember. Too late in the evening to find it now :-)

DavecUK

FadedFrontiers but its job shouldn’t differ from the bottom burr except that one is moving.

Yes, but each burr cannot know which burr is moving…that concept is all about relative motion. So logically, it can’t matter…unless I’m completely missing something?

Rob666

DavecUK Unless the burrs are mounted vertically gravity might have some effect.

Cuprajake

Giphy - Glasses Spiderman GIF by nounish ⌐◨-◨

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