I’m looking for some help to make sure im not missing something in my thought process for upgrading. I’m currently using a Sage Barista Express, have been for 2 years now. Whilst I’m getting good results it’s very inconsistent. With zero changes from shot to shot they can act wildly different. So, it’s time to upgrade. I make around 4 drinks a day. Mostly flat whites and the odd americano. Occasionally I’ll make more when people come over and it would be nice in that situation to spend less time stood in front of the machine. My initial thoughts were to get a Lelit Elizabeth and a Niche. Then, Niche announced the Duo so I stalled on my grinder purchase. And then I saw the Timemore 078s and I decided to back that (I might still pull out if I can be persuaded otherwise). The Elizabeth also got the veto from my wife on looks. So, after much research I narrowed it down the the Lelit Bianca and the ECM Synchronika. With the idea that upping my budget will get me both a machine that should last me for years and have the looks to please my other half. I’m edging towards the Bianca due to size and the space it will sit in my kitchen. I think the ECM would block access to the nook that the grinder will live. I’m also strongly considering the extra cash to get a white or black one purely for aesthetics. And if I’m using it every day for years to come it seems worth it. My question is, is there other machines I should be considering? Maybe a little more money and go for a Libra Micra? Or do I even look at HX machines for my needs, would they serve it? Lastly, does anyone have the white or black Bianca and is happy they chose that over the shiny one? Thanks for the help! I feel very fortunate to be considering these machines and want to get it right.

> @"BrewLiam"#p43831 Lastly, does anyone have the white or black Bianca and is happy they chose that over the shiny one? I have a black Bianca and it does look good…I only wish they did it with the same colour knobs as the stainless finish…I personally think it would look even better [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/YFTwm7F.jpeg] Here is the black and stainless side by side.

@"BrewLiam"#p43831 I know you have a space issue. There is an Evo on the classifieds for £2K. An excellent value for money. The new would likely cost £3K. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/713-acs-vesuvius-evo-leva-for-sale-ps2000/40 Btw, welcome to our forum! 😊

@"DavecUK"#p43833 thanks for the side-by-side comparison Dave, not sure I’ve seen them both like that before. Sold on the colour finish vs the other for sure

@"LMSC"#p43835 thanks LMSC, I’ve been a member over on CFUK for a while, came back to it recently to find it nowhere near as active. Stumbled upon this forum recently and glad I found it :). I saw the Evo, got all excited about it and I love the idea of the Lever. Showed it the other half when I saw it, hoping she said get it. She did not 😂

There's nearly £600 more in price for a black Vs chrome Bianca The Bianca is a cracking machine, it comes with everything you need to start bar a grinder. Theres the ECM and profitec 700 dual boilers The tech in the Bianca seems more sophisticated than the ECM. The duo is a great grinder, none of them will be out before July, Me I'd have another Bianca in a heart beat. While the la marzocco are nice they are very expensive and won't offer you anything the Bianca won't do.

> @"Cuprajake"#p43839 Me I’d have another Bianca in a heart beat. This is the sort of thing that’s good to hear. Read so much about ECM being much better build quality, which maybe they are, but nice to know people would go back to Bianca’s. The sophistication of them is the main draw for me. And £600 seems crazy for the colour, but I can’t help but prefer it. Appreciate the confirmation of what I was thinking.

They will both make excellent coffee. There will be differences in warm up times etc but at this price point you will get good coffee out of most and it start to come down to looks and little details. Like the Bianca you can move the water tank, most machines that's fixed. There's the ACS Vesuvius pressure profiler too. In this price point but left door fill

> @"BrewLiam"#p43840 Read so much about ECM being much better build quality, which maybe they are, but nice to know people would go back to Bianca’s The build quality of the Bianca isn't lacking, I honestly can't see anything on mine that screams poor workmanship; the edges are flush and its panels are flat. It's definitely good enough!

> @"BrewLiam"#p43838 I saw the Evo, got all excited about it and I love the idea of the Lever. Showed it the other half when I saw it, hoping she said get it. She did not 😂 Keep trying until she relents. Tell her it’s a fab machine, 2/3 of the new price, makes 10+ bars shots unlike other machines, literally easy to maintain, no need to back flush, blah blah. Don’t take no for an answer. 😁 Between Bianca and Evo, I will choose Evo. If you still go Bianca, it’s a cracking machine. Where do you live?

Please could I get a sanity check on my upgrade thoughts

LMSC

BrewLiam I saw the Evo, got all excited about it and I love the idea of the Lever. Showed it the other half when I saw it, hoping she said get it. She did not 😂

Keep trying until she relents. Tell her it’s a fab machine, ⅔ of the new price, makes 10+ bars shots unlike other machines, literally easy to maintain, no need to back flush, blah blah. Don’t take no for an answer. 😁

Between Bianca and Evo, I will choose Evo. If you still go Bianca, it’s a cracking machine.

Where do you live?

BrewLiam

LMSC I’ll have another look at it, do some measuring and give it another go. I think I might end up with the Bianca still.

I’m in south Manchester, so relatively close to the Evo. Think I read South Yorkshire for it.

LMSC

BrewLiam I’m in south Manchester, so relatively close to the Evo. Think I read South Yorkshire for it.

Ask @hysaf if you could pop in with your wife, ask him to make some lattes and go from there. Make it a jolly day trip. I believe he lives closer to a very nice coffee roaster - SmithStreet. Have a cuppa there as well.

As we said, you can’t go wrong with Evo and Bianca.

Ernie1

The Bianca or the Synch are both amazing machines the only extra you’re really getting on the ECM is better build quality. My only issue with the Bianca I had was that for almost £2k, it felt a little flimsy and unrefined in parts.

Didn’t detract from an incredibly capable and enjoyable machine though.

I’m biased obviously but I’d support the Micra. It’s not the machine to buy though if you want maximum features for buck value.

On the Evo, people like to push ACS (EDIT: Evo) machines on this forum but I’d do a search and have a good read through the threads here on them first.

LMSC

Ernie1 On the Evo, people like to push ACS machines on this forum but I’d do a search and have a good read through the threads here on them first.

Giphy - First Place Reaction GIF by Timothy Winchester 😁😉

Cuprajake

I don’t think they push the Evo, it’s just that there have been a few used recently and at stupid cheap prices so they offer best bang for buck, there’s a lot of cash been flashed on here recently and not everyone has that big of a budget. 👍

Can’t remember the last time a new Evo/Vostok was recommended as there both over £3k

Reality is in the UK there are really only 5 machines or so in or around the £2k

tompoland

BrewLiam Showed it the other half when I saw it, hoping she said get it. She did not

“always better to ask for forgiveness than permission” 😁

dfk41

tompoland Never question your wife’s judgement, after all, look whom she married………

Ernie1

LMSC

I’m wrong? I mean the person comes in looking for a Bianca or a Synch and you’ve posted twice just in this thread alone saying you’d recommend the Evo.

Not sure I’m wrong at all. But thanks for taking the time to find that gif.

Cuprajake

And if you’re close to bacup you can always have a look at mine lol however if you were looking at an Elizabeth the Evo is a tad bigger 😅

I’d recommend Bella barista for a UK machine. Very good service.

LMSC

There is also a Vesuvius around the same price. It needs to be ordered direct from ACS. The Evo uses the Vesuvius body/frame.

LMSC

Ernie1 IMHO, I am sorry, we don’t push the Evo 😊

The ACS machines are expected to pop up in any recommendations along with the likes of Bianca, provided they are in the budget.

Edit :

Ernie1 don’t recommend ACS machines.

Do we really expect people not to recommend the ACS suite ? The tech, quality and the price speak for themselves, like Bianca. There are also other nice machines, some very nice machines with a super nice price.

So, the recommendations are a function of what an OP is keen on, the price, the space and so on.

Ernie1

LMSC Edit :

1984FXSE don’t recommend ACS machines.

Do we really expect people not to recommend the ACS suite ?

That quote isn’t what I said, anywhere. Not once did I say ‘don’t recommend ACS machines’.

Do not edit what I’ve said and quote me falsely.

Ernie1

@LMSC

Ok. Posting twice in the same thread about a machine that wasn’t even mentioned in the OP…

Whatever, once again I dared to mention one of the hallowed brands of Coffeetime in the wrong light and paid the price.

LMSC

Ernie1

BrewLiam is there other machines I should be considering?

LMSC

Ernie1 mention one of the hallowed brands of Coffeetime

Please feel free to name it.

Ernie1 paid the price.

Sorry, if you felt offended in any way.

Cuprajake

Ernie1

You seem to post this alot

Sorry to say in the espresso world £2000 doesn’t get you alot.

Like I said above you will get a handful of good machines in that bracket.

People can have opinions different to your own, the reality is most of us will never own the machine you do as its so expensive, hence we can’t recommend it,

The main machines that get recommendations on here are the Bianca, the Elizabeth, the ACS and the ECM

Have a read on cfuk it’s the same machines that pop up as that’s all there really is.

I don’t get all the arguing all it does is derail a thread, pee off the op and get no where.

I just tried to link to black cat coffee as they sell the bezzera duo matrix but his site has closed.

Nightrider_1uk

Cuprajake I just tried to link to black cat coffee as they sell the bezzera duo matrix but his site has closed.

The Black Coffee website is still up

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk.

Ernie1

Absolutely nothing to do with my machine. I know it’s massively overpriced and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone unless they specifically wanted an LM. I’m under no impression it’s ‘better’ than any of the machines mentioned in this thread.

I dose on demand on average grinders, one that’s quite old, clearly I don’t mind that people have different opinions.

I’m merely making an observation that sometimes it seems that there’s too much defensiveness over certain brands around here that can feel like it’s not an unbiased opinion.

Even now I’m dancing around what I’d like to say because I know if I did people would absolutely jump on it.

Maybe that’s not intentional at all, it probably isn’t, but that’s how it comes across to me.

LMSC

That quote was captured from the post that changed somehow as I was editing a reply. Neither I edited nor quoted falsely!

I am done posting !

Ernie1

LMSC

Even then you’ve edited my post because before I changed it said something like ‘so you’re telling me people don’t recommend ACS machines?’

And your edit entirely changed the context of what I was saying.

I’m not saying ACS machines shouldn’t be recommended, they absolutely should, as has been pointed out they’re in the price bracket, popular and feature packed machines.

I was literally saying before someone who’s been considering a couple of profiling E61s considers buying a lever, they should do a search on here and see what’s been said about them as they’ve been discussed at length.

Given the resulting backlash, I think I’ve made my point…

LMSC

Ernie1

I didn’t want to post. I think I should clarify and draw this to a close amicably. 😊

The quote was captured from your post, it was changed later (not by me) and I did not edit your post!

I am sure we all appreciate that change in your post and my reply actually crossed path making them out of context or irrelevant or both! TBH, this is the fact, and there was no bad intent at all! 😊

We know we recommend a set of machines - lever or E61 for a given price range, unless one doesn’t have an upper budget. 😁

No body pushes a machine on the forum. There is no commercial interest for any of us. All we care is a good cuppa than a sub-standard coffee (for us at least) that we get from high-street coffee chains.

Whether the OP purchases XYZ is purely his/her decision. They are the ones who are paying and responsible for the upkeep. I agree, the potential buyers must do their due diligence and take an informed decision.

That’s all I have got to say on this!

@BrewLiam Sorry! We deviated from your post. I promise no more reply from me. 😊

Have a good long week end every one!

Ernie1

Apologies to anyone I’ve offended here, that’s not the intention. Again, regardless of the good deal I was trying to add a second opinion on jumping into a lever before fully understanding what that entails. And the threads here go into some great detail.

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