Niche has updated the prices for Zero and Duo. In addition, the Duo is no longer sold as two burrs set option. We have a choice of either of the burrs set or both. The company has done a great job in addressing the concerns on pricing and the choice of burrs set options. The pricing has also been rationalised. For example, if I am ordering a zero from Germany, they take away the VAT (before shipping is added) taking the cost to £449. I checked this with a Germany address and obviously, did not order. Happy to be corrected, if am wrong. https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-zero https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo

Not surprised to see the zero go up - as has everything else recently.. Good to have the options now of the single burr sets - and sorting out the VAT issue. Also the shipping date for new order is back to August… clearly a pretty successful launch on Aprils fools day !

both burr sets (original) is still july glad they sorted the pricing out, as it was a big point for a lot of people

@"Cuprajake"#p45462 Makes you wonder if they will even mention it on HB…..🤣

@"DavecUK"#p45468 nahhh but we cant because we will get called names

Interesting, so with just one burr it's cheaper than the DF83!

@"Ammonite"#p45473 Indeed that too with Mazzer burrs set! IIRC, the DF83 still comes up Itamil, unless they have also defaulted to Mazzer or DLC.

I guess it now gives people everything they want. My personal recommendation would be to get the "directors cut" and have both burr sets. It is well worth it if you do filter. Or if you are pure espresso you might even want to put different espresso burr sets in the other carriers.

Also notice that the one with both burr sets (i.e.: Filter and Espresso burrs) now costs 778.80. If memory doesn't fail me, it was £799? So a reduction of £21.20. Sold out in any case.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p45477 You are quite correct.

Even though I am a brewed coffee dabbler, I would still go for the two burr option…….why you ask? Simple, if you go for the one burr version then you have no option! I am not a big believer (sorry Tom P) of the ever increasing market of speciality burrs. I think very few people have the skill and taste buds to detect the minute differences these burrs can make. I think a lot of people think they can, but I have my doubts! It takes many a moon to train your palette and become a super taster. Many years ago, I made 3 cups of tea. I put sugar in one then stirred it and used the same spoon to remove the tea bags from the other two mugs. Handed one to my mother in law who took a sip and said, you have stirred my cup with the same spoon you used to put sugar in the other………..she was in a different room and I still have no idea if she was a super taster or a con artist!

Niche - New Prices

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake Now it’s cheaper but niche have moved away from what they originally designed

In which sense? The design is the same. There’s no change. They just listened to their customer base. No point offering two burr sets if that’s not what the customers want. If the customers want carriers to fit what they want on, then that’s what will drive the market. If they don’t do offer, someone else will (copy). As I said before, I’m led to believe they will sell the carriers with filter burrs sets at some point in the future. For how much I don’t know.

Cuprajake Original price was the same as a df83 and you got two burr sets

Yes, for us in the UK. Not for the rest of the world! And, just because it’s cheaper than the DF83, doesn’t mean the price is right. As you can see, at least in the UK, the DF83 prices have been adjusted down. Again, market forces will drive that.

Sham

I don’t like how they only removed the extra VAT when more competition arrived… They were pretty adamant in their justification on the extra VAT to non-UK customers, back in a Niche dominated single dosing market…

MediumRoastSteam

Sham - yeah, not a fan either. But they reacted and did what’s right in the end.

Market forces… 😉

Cuprajake

Being on the inside of this I have a bit of a different insight, I know things I’m simply not allowed to say, which would change people’s perspective.

I’m not really bothered about the rest of the world, I live and buy in the UK when I can.

We all get import fees etc, if I want a honne, lagom, kafatek, Weber, timemore, etc

The vat thing I only heard about when the duo launched April first,

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake The vat thing I only heard about when the duo launched April first,

That was a topic beaten to death with the Niche Zero, in this forum even. It resurfaced and gained traction with the launch of the Duo.

Cuprajake Being on the inside of this I have a bit of a different insight, I know things I’m simply not allowed to say, which would change people’s perspective

Fair enough Jake, which is the right thing to do. But is your comment to do with selling the carriers separately or pricing?

Cuprajake

I missed it with the zero too as I have no real interest in the zero, I have it for the Mrs to use as the mazzer wasn’t good workflow for her.

LMSC

Before some body pops up and suggest a bias is kicking in, I neither own a Niche nor tested it. 🤣

First, IMHO, it takes real guts and business decisions to put out something that has never been thought of. Niche did that with Zero and had done with the release of dual burrs set. No one except Niche would know the real reason behind this move. This was a gap that required to be filled to help those who want the best of both worlds. For those who may not like espresso or filter, if there was no choice, we don’t have to buy. It is our decision. Nevertheless, Niche had started the easy to swap dual options and I am sure we will see a lot of this popping up elsewhere soon in the future.

Second, they should be appreciated for weathering all the **** that folks across forums dished out, yet listening to all of it and offer what people had asked in the flat burr space. I am sure they would have received a lot of enquiries by email.

Third, pricing was a source of irritation and displeasure for a long time. It’s great they addressed it, made them very competitive realistically and also in the eyes of ayes and noes. It’s very good for them.

Fourth, I just don’t buy all the fussing and the moaning re-can’t be asked to change the burrs during the day for filter and swap back to espresso. If some body wants a great filter, either one requires a new grinder or swap the burrs set. There is a reason why manufacturers sell filter only burrs set. We have clips showing this is easy and quick while the kettle boils. One can make filter with the espresso burrs set. Hope folks won’t moan again the flat espresso burrs set sucks at filter or it’s disappointing. May be, the Generative AI might one day revolutionise this space.

Fifth, how we look at duo and the choices aren’t important. For the company, the duo is designed for espresso and filter Mazzer burrs in mind and not choosing other burrs in lieu of the non-mazzer burrs set. I am not an engineer. Doesn’t the SSP require more torque than envisaged for the Duo ? Does it not require extensive testing sporting SSP burrs to see whether it is ok to run with existing configuration (with the long term life of the motor in mind)? It is probably ok as it comfortably chewed the greens. I do hope those who are comfortable paying £300/US $400 to mount it on Duo are not disappointed.

Sixth, extra carriers as accessories is interesting. Nothing wrong with it. My question, why does one need it? Is it to mount a third-party espresso burrs set or what if my taste changes? I can understand both circumstances. Do they not require swapping burrs? We go back to square one! 🤷

LMSC

If businesses collected the VAT for non-UK exports, it would have gone to the Government. Period.

If the UK business is charging a flat price (retail price on the site is what matters to retail customers) for every one, it’s the business decision. One can debate or otherwise. As consumers, we decide if we want to pay. If the non-UK consumers don’t buy, it’s the business problem.

I don’t care how it impacts the non-UK customers (I understand and appreciate the frustration of a product beyond some one’s reach). Because, I pay the VAT and the taxes if I import anything. I can’t moan because it was my decision to buy something from elsewhere in the first place. The same yard stick goes for those who want to buy a Niche grinder. Although the non-UK exports are excluding UK VAT, the VAT/taxes are still at play for those who import from the UK.

I find it unfair people use different filters to judge different companies.

dfk41

Crickey, some real mumbo jumbo theories being put about here……but I suppose that are what forums are for after all

Ernie1

Yeah hard to believe they’ve got anything other than good intentions having listened to feedback and made the changes so quickly.

Some people just can’t be pleased!

dutchy101

Incredible stuff really. No pleasing some folk

DavecUK

dutchy101 Incredible stuff really. No pleasing some folk

I think if you have been angry about something, or felt injustice about an issue for a long time, it can be hard to let go. We see that in many walks of life where the responses are disproportionate due to depth of feeling. It’s not very productive and the best thing to do is look at the current situation to make the best choices going forward.

Posting it on a forum, social media may make them feel better, vindicated, holding the moral high ground, but the reality is, the only people who care, hold the same views as them. It’s not a productive way of thinking though and it gets in the way of logical unbiased thought. As they continually revisit the past and work themselves up over it…they miss more important things

If I say what those elephants in the room are, I will probably get accused of promoting the Duo, so I won’t. I will just say that technically many decisions were taken as the result of 1000+ hours of testing literally. These are decisions most people will never see or realise happened. Some of them allow the grinder to mostly clear without bellows, others improve grind quality, allow it to grind the hardest beans from a standing start, never stall etc.. etc..

The best thing to do is leave them be…..if they want to continue to neg on the company, fine…..what they hope/want to achieve by it is beyond me?

tompoland

For me, the biggest potential game changer about the Duo are the blank burr cartridges.

My hope, which is just that, is that I’ll be able to buy blank cartridges and try selected Mazzer burrs in addition to the 151B and 151F that come with the Duo. And perhaps other non Mazzer burrs will also fit the blank burr carriers.

Risky, I know, but it’s an area I am going to explore, with a degree of care.

Again, just my opinion, but a truly great feature of the DF64 is the ease of swapping burrs in and out. The Duo might make that an even easier way to enjoy the luxury of sampling different burr profiles without having to buy a whole new grinder.

One feature that the Duo and DF64s have in common is the coil springs that contract and expand when adjusting the collar for a finer or coarser grind.

In my playing around so far, that type of spring seems to accommodate a wider range of burr thickness than the wave spring design of the DF83s and DF64V on my bench.

More testing to come.

Cuprajake

from a warranty point of view i would see how niche wouldnt want other burrs in there over what it has been tested with,

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake from a warranty point of view i would see how niche wouldnt want other burrs in there over what it has been tested with,

That’s a great point. But even with the Zero… There were a couple of aftermarket mods, including Gorilla Burrs and some flat burr conversion kit.

I don’t think they can control it - if people want, they will do it, potentially at their own risk. It does not prevent Niche selling carriers with burrs fitted as an extra item (e.g.: I buy the Niche Duo with espresso burrs and 2 years later decide I want to venture into filter burrs). It would be silly if they don’t do it. They might even want to charge an extra premium for it (e.g.: instead of £120 they can charge £200). My personal opinion, of course.

tompoland

Agreed, and thats a justifiable concern.

That’s why I bought two. One for warranty-voiding testing.

Cuprajake

No agree that they could sell the burr and carrier. But maybe not the carrier on its own

DavecUK

Well I know the SSP Brew and Espresso burrs fit as mentioned in my other post.

LMSC

Niche sent a mail. The choices for pre-orders are:

Partial refund of the difference in price (£20.20).

Full refund so you can order a single burr set version of the Niche Duo.

No partial refund once the order is shipped

dfk41

LMSC What are you going to do matey?

LMSC

dfk41 It’s a no brainer decision for me! I already asked them to refund (partial) the difference. 😁

Thx!

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