Dusk Aye exactly this. If something is a bargain it’ll be snapped up quickly in my opinion. People pushing it as one doesn’t make it one, nor does keeping the price artificially high. (As it still took @Petre weeks to sell at 1750 after pursuing every channel.)

Whereas if it’s a fair price, it may take a while in this current climate. It’s all about balancing a need to sell quickly (like the one at 1750), or preferring to wait to get a fair price for it. Similarly for the buyer; if somebody really wants something, they will pay more to have it quickly, but if only mildly interested, they will be more careful with their money.

On the subject, if somebody has a Rivian R1T in the UK, I’ll happily pay a good price…

Cuprajake I do understand that as an owner it’s frustrating, and seems selfish for one guy to sell low and mess up the market for the others by setting a precedent, but don’t really think it works like this. I’m sure there’s gonna be a lot of niche zero owners in the near future getting rid of their machines cheaply for a duo. Will it reduce the value of mine in the short term? Sure, but that’s not why I bought it. It is what it is at the end of the day, people have a lot of choice in this price range.

    7 days later

    capuchin Cuprajake I do understand that as an owner it’s frustrating, and seems selfish for one guy to sell low and mess up the market for the others by setting a precedent.

    Don’t agree Jake. We all like to think something has an intrinsic value which is not the case. You can value something at whatever price you like but if no-one wants to buy, where does that leave you? It’s the market that determines price.

    An example. Arrarex Caravel levers were popular and were bought and sold on another forum quite regularly with good condition ones selling for £250 and above. I have one and were I to try and sell it, what price do you think I would get for it realistically? Probably, lower as there isn’t the same level of interest in the Caravels nowadays. I could determine mine’s value at over £250 allowing for inflation but I would be surprised to find potential buyers beating a path to my door.

    When items are in high demand but scarce in supply, ‘value’ can exceed market price. Niche is a good example.

    Without getting into machine specifics, sure, it is a classic supply and demand.

    Every owner, irrespective of a machine or a grinder, has a right to dispose off the used at what ever the price they would like to set. We know no body has got a d*** right to question that. We see that in super market price wars.

    However, this isn’t a super market. It’s a niche market where the used gets a fair price.

    A used Evo at £1750 was a deeply discounted bargain hunt. We all know that the Evo is worth more than it has been sold at. Some are glad Systemic sold off his second machine very quickly, while some Evo users aren’t as it has permanently devalued their machines’ worth. We can’t say that’s a reality nor the other users can’t express their opinion.

    I remember some one on this forum or elsewhere stating may be Evo isn’t actually worth as it was made out to be. Really?

    A lot of users like self is unlikely to sell this machine and may continue using it unless it can no longer be updated (parts) or one of us (self or the machine) packs. I will tell my daughter she either uses it or give it to a good cause. 😁

    But, it is a gentle reminder to those Evo users that they are going to struggle to sell their Evo, should they choose to sell at a higher price than the last sold price in the future. We know the used Evos may need price setting to the south of the previous selling price. Unfortunate, IMHO.

    One might also have to remember this while buying new. Will I buy a new Evo, should my daughter nick the one we have at home. No, I will go back to filter. Period.

    @hysaf - We are very sorry that this thread is being used in a way it should not be.

    @DavecUK - If you think it is appropriate, could you clean all irrelevant posts not related to the intent. Sorry for the inconvenience!

      LMSC We are very sorry that this thread is being used in a way it should not be.

      Best words said written in this thread in a while.

      It is neither right nor appropriate to tamper with the sales thread.

      Thx Dave.

      a month later

      LMSC

      Absolutely fine gents, it’s all good fun and interactive.

      I have always said that an item is worth as much as someone is willing to pay and you are willing to accept.
      At the end of the day, I can ask as much as I want for my machine, and also take the liberty to accept or reject offers. :)

      P.S, I’ve been silent for a while, been involved in an accident with my new bike a few weeks ago and I’m currently recovering. I`m all good.

      Have a great evening !

        hysaf Sorry to hear your accident. Get well soon mate! Take care.

        Get well soon, I have a strong dislike of motor bikes. Know a lot of friends get hurt and worse

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

        Really sorry to hear. Fellow rider here and spent a few weeks in hospital with a few surgeries a few years back thanks to a reckless car driver. Had to learn to walk again.

        Stay strong, all the best for the recovery!

        hysaf

        I hope you heal quickly and completely, I’ve been there too.
        Take all the drugs.

        More importantly, how is the Monster?

          hysaf

          Hope you heal soon. The downside of bikes I guess …. if something happens, usually not the biker’s fault (though there are idiots on bikes too), it tends to be much worse than in a car, something too many car drivers fail to understand.

          As for what something’s worth, I agree with the “market sets the price” rationale, but it’s more complicated than even that. It also depends on the circumstances of the buyer. If the item in question is, let’s say a widget, and the “fair” price is £1800, how much will a specific buyer pay? If it’s someone struggling to find tthe money but that really wants that widget, they may have £1750 and not a penny more. Along comes buyer B, say Elon Musk or some other billionaire. £2000 is chump change to them and if they think “Y’know, I fancy a widget that colour, I don’t have a red one, only blue, green, yellow and sky-blue pink”, they may, on a whim, fork over two grand and say “keep the change”. Then put their new widget with the others they have, and promptly forget all about it. The poor git that really, REALLY wanted it got done over by circumstances utterly beyond his control, or standard market forces.

          Conversely, a widget might sell regularly for that £1800 but, as it happens, everybody that wants one has one, and there just isn’t a buyer. Probably, though not necessarily, dropping the price might work. But it might not.

          Most things don’t have a specific arbitrary value, and it certainly isn’t fixed over time. I have a car quite a few people seem to want, to the point that at least a few times a year I get either a knock at the door, or a note shoved through the letterbox with a “ring me if youwant to sell” message on it. Thing is, I don’t especially want to sell. Oh, I guess if someone waved a big enough price under my nose I’d sell, but I’m sure not actively looking to sell, and especially not at “market price”. Double market price? I doubt it. Triple ‘market’ price? We’re getting there.

          Thing is, I bought that car new, it has low mileage, excellent condition and as such, to me, is irreplaceable as I literally cannot buy one only ever driven by me on “the market”, at any price. To me, it’s not just the car, or condition. It was my pride and joy, and means more to me that the sum of money “market price” does. I’m not wealthy, but not hard up either. I buy (within reason, I’m not talking about private jets or Caribbean islands, etc) what I want, when I want it, and it doesn’t really impact my financial situation in a dramatic way. So if that car is worth, for arguments sake, £5k and someone offers me £10k, what difference will the money make? What will it let me do that I can’t do right now, if I want to? If I could use that £10k to do something or buy something that, without selling it I can’t do, it would change te situation, but it doesn’t do that. All it means is a bit more in my bank balance, by selling something I don’t want to sell.

          So what is the car “worth”? To me, more than anyone has yet offered to pay for it, so here it remains. There might, somewhere and some-when, be a person with enough money to hit my “Oh okay, I’ll sell” price, that wants the car more than whatever sum it takes to buy it. What is £10k, £25k, £100k “worth” to a billionaire?

          See what I mean? It’s not just the car, bike, widget or whatever that has a market value, but the value of money depends on how much you have, compared to how much you realistically need to live your life how you want to. Even money really has no value in itself, merely in what it will buy you, or enable you to do. It’s a sort of “opportunity cost”, if you like.

          All very true, one look at the housing market shows how ‘value’ is entirely manufactured by external factors.

          Scarcity is also such an enormous factor. The insanity of the Rolex market over the past few years highlights that. Want a new Submariner? £7k. Except Joe Shmoe can’t get one for 5 years so that’ll be 12,000 of your finest pounds if you want one any sooner.

          I remember on the old forum people were selling big flats in excellent condition with single dosing mods and all for lower and lower prices. I think I saw Majors and Royals dropping from £400 down to £250 at one point there were so many and prices were just driven lower and lower. Even ones with coated burrs were going for £300-£350. A similar thing happened to machines - dual boilers were always over £1k but then people started shifting more and more and before you knew it the new model (4?) Expobar DBs were going for sub £700.

          I was selling mine at one point without an ad. I was talking to somebody over PM and I refused to go below £750 for a machine that was at the time 4 years old with only light use. They started to send links to other sale threads for ones that had been sold previously for £600 (for a quick sale) and that were the older models or had multiple previous owners, and they topped it off with a link to one on Amazon for new for around the same price I was asking for mine - I pointed out the one on Amazon was likely the HX with the wrong description, and the previous sale threads weren’t valid comparisons. I’ve still got the machine and probably will just keep it as a spare now. No idea if the guy I was talking to tried his luck with Amazon or bought one that had been passed around by a few different owners for the sake of saving £150.

          Actually, I think he did go for the one on amazon and it never arrived.

            Rob1 I think I saw Majors and Royals dropping from £400 down to £250 at one point

            Dead right, Rob. Years ago, picked up a doser Mazzer Major with Ti burrs that was almost brand new for £250