Hi and happy new year all! I have a July 2021 model of the MaraX (red logo, OPV water redirected to pump directly from factory) I have connected a UART to the Gicar (and built a neat little project on top of that https://github.com/michelhe/pimp-my-marax) According to the readings, my Gicar software version is 1.23B (whereas I've seen records online of people who published their UART readings and saw a version 1.23 without the B which leads me to wonder if I got some beta version Gicar). The problem I am having is with steam pressure. It's hardly maintainable above 1Bar during the froth, and often drops to 0.7-0.8 after 10s of frothing. (And yeah, I did read the entire 30 pages discussion regarding that topic on CoffeeForumsUK, my workflow is fine, i just can't achieve the same numbers shown on youtube videos of the machine). @"DavecUK"#1 I've tried reaching out but it appears you are no longer on CoffeeForumsUK. From that discussion it seems you have the knowledge of how to flash the firmware and also the firmware file of the Gicar? I wish to test a different version because I believe the target boiler temperatures of my Gicar are different: 126 steam boost and 112 during "idle" (instead of 128&116 shown in official lelit video) and I believe this is the reason I'm seeing decreased pressure. If @"DavecUK"#1 or anyone else here have some documentations and firmware files for the MaraX gicar I would be glad if you could share with me. I have the technical knowledge (and access to flash programmers at work) so I can easily do it myself, I just need firmware files and proper instructions from people who'v done it before. Thanks and happy new year friends! 2022 ^^

@"MisterH1337"#p2745 I can flash the LCCs, if I have the relevant firmware, or an existing current LCC to read the firmware from. I know how the Gicar boxes are flashed, but I am not sure if I have the equipment to flash them. Unfortunately, I cannot share firmware I have…even the retailers are not given the capability to flash LCC controllers. I only have it for some of the testing I do for them. Sometimes I have machines a year before release or more from manufacturers, so I have to be very careful. e.g. Puristika almost 2 years before release and just released revised Bianca, almost 1 year ago.

> @"MisterH1337"#p2745 The problem I am having is with steam pressure. It’s hardly maintainable above 1Bar during the froth, and often drops to 0.7-0.8 after 10s of frothing. (And yeah, I did read the entire 30 pages discussion regarding that topic on CoffeeForumsUK, my workflow is fine, i just can’t achieve the same numbers shown on youtube videos of the machine). @"MisterH1337"#p2745 I don't have access to my firmware so can't help with that, but I am wondering if you are not barking the wrong tree. My machine boost to \~1.5 bar after a shot, and doesn't go far down during steaming, whereas you say yours is hardly above 1 bar and goes down to 0.7-0.8 after 10 seconds. I got my machine in September 2020, so it's older than yours. I don't have any knowledge regarding firmware changes, but I doubt that Lelit changed the settings to have **less** steaming power. If anything, my impression was that some people wanted more steaming power, so I would guess (it's only a guess) that if they changed the settings they would up the steam power and not lower it. Even if they did opt for a lower steam boost, I don't think hovering between just over 1 to 0.7 bar is what they would do for steam boost. I also don't know if 2 degrees difference in temperature (128 to 126C would translate to such a big difference in steam pressure. Maybe @"DavecUK"#p2748 can say if this makes sense? I am therefore wondering if your issue wouldn't be the same problem as the other people who have had this problem described in the thread you mentioned on CFUK: the temp sensor. From memory, most of the people who encountered a too-low steam pressure managed to solve the problem by replacing the temp sensor. Have you looked at that and confirmed this isn't the issue before going the firmware route?

@"Doram"#p2752 It's a tiricky one, but no a few C difference won't make a massive difference to steaming. Using the machine in a different way to how it's designed to be used might though. e.g. if you get the steam boosting and then prep the shot, it might start falling during the shot, to prevent the HX getting too warm, issues like that. I always think a Video is very useful to diagnose these issues. A video taken from a machine that's been on for at least 40 minutes, not touched until the videos started and normal shot prep and production begins. Together with the steaming.

Hey guys, as suggested I made a video of my workflow: [`Youtube`](https://youtu.be/k9PP3tXeIFw) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9PP3tXeIFw There is around 1 min delay between each cut (filmed by myself when pulling the shots and wife came to help on the steam part) Let me know what you think ^^

> @"MisterH1337"#p2811 Hey guys, as suggested I made a video of my workflow: [Youtube](https://youtu.be/k9PP3tXeIFw) From your video I can clearly see that your machine is kept at a lower pressure than mine. Looking at your manometer, I can see that before you start your first shot you are below 0.5 bar. You then get a boost, but even at the peak you are lower than 1.5 bar, and as soon as you start steaming you go down to 1 bar or less. No wonder you are getting weak steaming performance. Compare this to my machine in the video below. In this video pressure before the shot is \~1 bar. This is higher than normal, because I didn't let the machine settle completely from cold. The machine is usually \~0.5 bar before I start a shot. More importantly, look what happens on the manometer after the shot. Steam boost brings it to around 1.5 bar, and it stays there during steaming, giving a much better performance than what you get at 1 bar and below. I very much doubt the cause for this would be the change of settings in the firmware. We have seen people with this issue. As I said in the first post, I put my money on the issue being caused by a temp sensor (but I have not had it myself, so can't tell you from my own experience). P.S. What water are you using in the machine? Could it be that you water is hard and you have scale on the temp sensor? Also, what is your brew temp switch set to (the one with zero, one and two behind the drip tray)? I see you have a thermometer on the group - do the readings you get from it correspond correctly to the temp setting you have selected? The Gicar can also be the problem, but as you have access to the readings you can check if they are faulty. @"DavecUK"#p2753 is better placed to tell you what you need to look for in the settings. Here is a video from mine for comparison: https://youtu.be/2fZJ4bL7P00

@"MisterH1337"#p2811 I'm wondering if firmware is updated and whether a slight change to the routine can help. Before steaming, try a flush through the group…just 30 or 40 ml, wait until the steam boiler needle starts to rise….then begin steaming. Try and steam enough milk for both drinks at once.

@"DavecUK"#1 That is actually my normal routine, I normally make one drink everymoring to myself and I flush some water through the group before prepping the shot so the pressure will build up, but as @"Doram"#54 said my machine simply can't maintain a higher pressure than what is shown. I'm wondering if the temp sensor could indeed be faulty, is the temp sensor you're referring to the one that sits on top of the boiler? what does it probe? the HX or the steam boiler? I have access to the readings and keep them on an historical influxdb and grafana : ![](https://i.ibb.co/r22g5Yj/image.png) What kind of readings will be a tell if something is faulty? Regarding the group temp sensor, yep sometimes there is some variance with what the UART data says, with the maximum offset being up to 5 degrees. but when its stable the offset is around 1c.

> @"MisterH1337"#p2841 , I normally make one drink everymoring to myself and I flush some water through the group before prepping the shot so the pressure will build up Sure, but I mean, to do it before steaming.

I believe I try that a couple of times, no significant change was made, at the very least it may cause steam boost to activate again so the chances of going below 1bar are minimized. @"Doram"#p2827 regarding the water type, I'm using tap water and the lelit water softener filter in the tank. Since I own the machine for 2 months now and this has been the problem from the very start, I would less think in the direction of limescale buildup. I could throw in a bag of [Oscar 90](https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/oscar-90-4607-p.asp) to the tank if you think it will help soften the water more. I live in Tel-Aviv, Israel and the water around here is considered very hard according to local coffee community here.

Maybe re-seating the temp sensor might change something?

Lelit MaraX firmware flashing

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK I still want them to Make a MaraX plus,, with Elizabeth steam boiler 300 or 400 ml brew boiler, an LCC with Elizabeth logic and a much simplified Gicar….plus of course a solenoid E61….if I ever get out there post Covid, it’s something I will press again with Mauro

Why do you say those things??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😊👍

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam In the hope that they will listen….because I know it would be a super popular machine.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - I hope Mauro is reading this. That would be an excellent choice for someone like myself. Sleek, compact, low maintenance yet very capable.

MisterH1337

fl13dl1c3 Doram MediumRoastSteam DavecUK

Update to these who were active in my thread:

I’m at the retailer repairshop now, and we’ve trying everything and nothing seems to help even a little:

Replacing the Gicar
Replacing the steam valve entirely
Replacing the safety thermostat (mine was rated for 140c and other MaraX in their lab had 165c ones)

They totally agree that the machine is not functioning correctly and the steam loses too much pressure even in steam mode.

They sent an email to Lelit requesting them to authorize a new machine for me, (they want Lelit to refund them first).. If Lelit would decline they will keep on inspecting it, but they are out of ideas.

Doram

MisterH1337 Why is this the culprit in your opinion? as I see it it’s just a PCB with deterministic software flashed on it, what could be “wrong” with it that it needs replacing?

Honestly, I trust a computer to do its task more rather than trusting some other mechincal component to be properly seated at the factory.

I don’t know nearly enough to understand DavecUK’s technical explanation, but it seems that a lot can go wrong with the box. It also makes sense to assume that Lelit are not stupid enough to tell the retailer to replace the box when there is no chance that this is the cause of the problem (It might be something else, but at least we know they think this is the next reasonable/cost effective thing to try).

But more important than the above is that you have a retailer and manufacturer that acknowledge a problem and take responsibility. Let’s see then if that fixes it or if after that they will have to do something else. I think everyone in this thread (and probably others lurking) is interested to find out what the outcome will be and where the cause of the fault is. I am looking forward to hearing how this pans out.

fl13dl1c3

Would like to add that I’d love for updates from @MisterH1337 on this whether replacing the gicar card resolves this. Selfishly since I have skin in this game as my machine seems act similarly 😀.

MisterH1337

fl13dl1c3

You got it, I’m still waiting for a update from the official retailer that the gicar was delivered to come and do the swap.

I’ll ping them next week when I done with covid (no worries I’ve had hursher flus in my life but must adhere to sufficient self isolation)

DavecUK

MisterH1337 Did they replace the thermoprobe itself and of course check carefully all the wiring and any connectors?

fl13dl1c3

MisterH1337 did they try replacing the manometer in the case it was reading incorrectly? I recall emails with Lelit mentioning there was some tolerance with the manometers as well.

MisterH1337

DavecUK

Yep, whatever it is, its not 90% electronics related.

Their next guess was the heating element, but they sent me back until Lelit responds and promised to look after me even at a cost of replacing the entire machine or boiler.

MisterH1337

fl13dl1c3

They refuse to believe the manometer has tolerance, I showed them the mails from Lelit on the matter.

My gut feeling is that Lelit will tell them to replace the manometer next. Lucky for me that visiting them is 30minutes drive for me and I can work from their caffee so I don’t lose a workday

DavecUK

MisterH1337 It won’t be the heating element, but if they have changed the Gicar Box, really the only thing that remains is the thermal probes.

I’m trying to think of a situation where it could be Mechanical, and there might be one, but in that case you would get excessive temperatures…which is not what’s happening.

MediumRoastSteam

MisterH1337 - that seems a lot of effort on both parts, and we all know time is money. I’m surprised they don’t replace the machine for you (i.e.: happy customer) and then deal with fixing your machine later and sell as refurb or something like that, or at least give you a machine they use in the office for the time being.

But… my fingers are crossed for you. I hope there’s a resolution soon!

Doram

MisterH1337 fl13dl1c3

They refuse to believe the manometer has tolerance, I showed them the mails from Lelit on the matter.

My gut feeling is that Lelit will tell them to replace the manometer next. Lucky for me that visiting them is 30minutes drive for me and I can work from their caffee so I don’t lose a workday

I am with MediumRoastSteam -on this. It’s great that they are taking responsibility and willing to go to this length to try and find the cause of the problem, but as a customer and owner of a new machine you don’t have to participate in this ordeal. IMO you have given them enough time and opportunity to find the problem and fix it. It isn’t fair to drag you to even more experiments and problem solving. If they couldn’t make your machine work by now - for me you have earned a replacement, and in my view it’s long overdue.

MisterH1337

Don’t want to celebrate too early, but my machine is probably fixed.
Donno why I wasn’t granted a new machine but apparently both Lelit & the lelit importer in Israel are fine with me having a Frankenstein of a machine.

After a very long visit to the lab today, with long list of modifications.

The 2 temperature probes - replaced (already replaced boiler probe in the past, now both it and the HX probe)
The gicar - replaced again, and this time looks like I got a MaraX v2 gicar 😲 (The guy at the lab claimed it was the newest they were sent, and coming home the UART output looked a bit different, I’ve updated my github project)

After the new Gicar and temp probes, it still didn’t fix the problem, and from this point they replaced all at once the following:

The heating element was also replaced.
Claimed they found a wiring mistake in the part Mauro holds here (compared it to 2 other machines)
And finally, replaced the water level probe with a brand new one.

After these last few replacements, the steam preasure finally reaches 1.5bar, and doesn’t go down drastically anymore! machine is working! yey!

@fl13dl1c3 Too bad they are not sure which of the mods actually fixed the problem, but at least it can give you a direction. The guy told me his best guess is that the water level probe was faking, causing the boiler to refill too much and won’t let vapor build up.. Regarding the wiring problem, I am not sure what this mini board even does, maybe @DavecUK can shed some light here?

Anyway, it’s not a end-of-saga for me just yet, I will take the next few days to thoroughly examine the machine.

And BTW, if anyone has any questions for the Gicar V2 now that I have it feel free to ask :)

MisterH1337

EDIT: Oh wow, I played with the machine while following the graph and found out what the new value means, looks like this is an indicator for if we are brewing or not!! this means I no longer need to stick a reed sensor to the pump to implement a shot timer! :O

And judging from my graphs, the MaraX v2 UART adds a new metric which I believe ~~indicates if steam boost is active or not,~~ but I still have more diagnosis to do about that:

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