Decent Experience and Poll

Congrats on the purchase @JHCCoffee

I’ve had my DE1XL for 2.5 years now. Hasn’t missed a beat and comes with a life time extendable warranty. That speaks volumes about John Buckmans confidence in the durability of his machines.

A swirl of espresso machines have come and gone around my Decent in those two and a half years..

It’s simply extraordinary.

For example, this morning I used a DF64V with Gorrilla Gear burrs which pairs well the “Adaptive” profile for medium roasted beans very well. Well balanced, full bodied, full flavored.

Later I used a Niche Duo with SSP Espresso burrs and with just two taps on the tablet I switched to another solid match in Scott Rao’s “Blooming” profile (designed for lighter roasts) and enjoyed all the bright juicy intenstity that those burrs can offer up.

Adding to the easy-to-access diversity of options on the Decent, the Decent Diaspora has members such as John Weiss, the Barista Hustle guy, Scott Rao, John Buckman and a host of other vastly experienced and helpful professionals posting and contributing to anwers. It’s really quite extraordinary. Almost as good as CT!

People love or hate the Decent. They are like a black jellybean: people who like them tend to love them and the rest can’t stand them. And that’s just fine. Celebrate that diversity of opinions. Accept and applaud differences.

The Decent is the mainstay of my coffee island…

PS my first shot of the day generally has me simply pushing the button through blurry eyes, just to get a quick caffiene fix. So it’s not all about nerding out. The Decent can be as simple or as complex as you enjoy making it.

JHCCoffee yes Fellow Stagg with optional wood accents. Hario Server 01 with a Hario Switch on top. Acaia Pearl scale. The Stagg features a useful “hold” option that will keep the water at the set temperature for up to an hour.

simonc I’m sorry you’ve had that experience, that seems really weird. I’ve had several dealings with Decent and their support team, and they have been amazingly helpful every single time. I had an issue with one of the buttons on my v1 scale and they replaced the entire scale for free with the updated v1.2 model. It hasn’t missed a beat since. I’d definitely raise this with them again. I know John was away on a trip recently but should be back now. If it was me I’d go through the Decent support portal on their website or message him directly on Diaspora and I’m sure he’ll sort this for you.

DavecUK

DavecUK Does it have to be shipped to Hong Kong for repairs?

Not generally Dave, no. Almost all repairs can be done by the end user. It’s not a typical machine by any stretch of the imagination, but is petty user-serviceable. You can send your machine back to Decent if you either don’t feel able to or don’t want to deal with an issue yourself. They’ll fix it for your under warranty including paying for postage both ways. Turnaround time is typically ten days door to door according to reports on Diaspora, but I’m sure it varies depending on what needs to be repaired.

I’m by no means technologically-minded or handy with DIY in any of its forms (I can barely put up a shelf!), but their videos and support are good, and I’ve been able to happily remove and take apart the group head and mod the case and refill tank without any problems.

JonWoo187 Seems every other month an updated version of their machine will be available… like oh it’s 1.45111 in 2 weeks and there will be a slight price increase, blah blah blah.

Whilst I understand the criticism levelled at Decent for releasing an evolving product, I also don’t think that this is a justifiable reason to complain . You buy a DE1 (or indeed any machine) for the functionality it has at the point of purchase. The main difference with the DE1 is you are highly likely to end up with a far more advanced machine in five years than that of another brand due to the very fact they iterate. By the same token you don’t have to update your current machine if you don’t want to. Whether you feel Decent should have waited five years to bring out the more advanced model as opposed to upgrading it in stages is probably just a difference of opinion.

The one thing that I have some difficulty with is the VAT issues. I believe Decent declare the machine at a very low value of $500. They can get away with this because the argument that the hardware is only worth that and the value is in the software probably holds very true.

United Kingdom - Import Tax

The DE1 is always shipped with all taxes paid up front. The price we quote you here is the total price, delivered to your door.

Later in the sales process once you view your cart, Decent say:

VAT and import duty are charged on the espresso machine hardware, which has a declared value of: US $500. The espresso machine software is sent to you over the Internet and is not part of this shipment. Depending on your country’s tax laws, you may need to self-declare VAT to your government for having downloaded the espresso machine software.

I did this for their cheapest machine and shipped to the UK is £3111.

Shipping is £238, machines declared value is £392…a total of £630 of which Decent pays VAT and import of £105 on your behalf. The vat split is probably around 7% less than that total.

The machine actually costs £2874, but VAT is only paid on £392, leaving £2482 as the value of the software YOU download, and which YOU should be declaring and paying VAT of almost £500. To not do so means YOU are committing VAT fraud.

We live in a very woke society and I have seen many holier than though comments over the years about copying in China, dumping etc.. etc.. from people who later go on and buy a Decent. Whether they self declare, and pay the £500 VAT bill or not depending on the model they bought, I don’t know? It’s also say similar practices is probably true for many products purchased from Chinese companies who are popping up on Kickstarter and being pushed by influencers. Or even the under declaration of value, which means both you and the company are committing VAT fraud (although the VAT man won’t go after them.

Now to finish Decent are doing nothing illegal under this countries law or their own countries law….and they are actually telling you to declare the VAT (of course perhaps later in the process they give you a breakdown of how much VAT you need to declare, I haven’t gone that far? Overall though, the whole thing doesn’t sit well with me and it’s something people never seem to mention.

It doesn’t sit well because it’s slightly unfair competition and any VAT that people don’t pay, basically comes from me and other people who pay tax, thus supporting that model of doing business. Of course, please tell me where I am wrong!

Redla Slight difference between your example and a firm selling a product that cannot be run without the software which is only available through them. It is also interesting that the declared value of the hardware is only $500.

Redla the same point can be made for people/influencers who get freebies over £50 value, or people who pay for jobs in cash.

I don’t quite understand, or agree with the similie/metaphore you are trying to make? It’s not the same thing and simply tries to distract from the point I am making… Are you trying to defend the activity, by stating 2 wrongs make a right?

This is especially true as sales samples cannot be sold and depending on the specific circumstances in which they were supplied, unless a certain period has elapsed VAT is payable. Some are simply not for resale and imported under that stipulation, if they are resold VAT is payable.

Redla Also a decent user has created a ‘despresso’ app which is a rebuilt version of the app written using fluter. If a user was to just run/install that would they still technically be liable for the VAT?

Only on the sale value of the App, of course then the problem is you still won’t get the Decent machine any cheaper, as you pay for the software, whether you want it or not. The slightly tricky point is you take ownership of it, as a software licence/software by paying for it and it is still subject to VAT.