Hi, I'm almost dead set on Bianca v3, coming from a Lelit Elizabeth (bought mostly due to review from @"DavecUK"#1 ), then I saw Crem One 2B R-LFPP Dual which more or less the same in features, look is subjective but the Crem is even somewhat "smarter" than Bianca (OLED display, user upgradable firmware), bigger boilers. it is also highly praised by Dave, Why is it not more "popular"? If the two are more or less then same in price, what would you choose?

I had the cream before the Bianca sadly mine was faulty. Some had an issue with the pump making an horrible noise. https://youtu.be/jf_B5_wE-UM https://youtu.be/uWVvGyLxNHk Bar that a very clever machine, if you are looking at profilers there also the ACS Vesuvius

@"Cuprajake"#p51116 you never got that fixed? I am also curious about the Vesuvius because it got mentioned here a lot. Is that the V10 one? Your signature still says Bianca V3 though? Or did you come back to Bianca (I believe you sold your V2?)

It turns out the Crem was made in China, even with Italian parts. that would be a downside for many (me included).

sent right back was brand new, after the crem i went to a new londinium lr24, that too was faulty so that got sent back, i refurbed the lindinium l1 i had, then had the bianca v2, but a good priced evo leva came up on coffeeforums, so i jumped at that, had that a year or so, then decided i waned a change and went back to the bianca v3 this time.

Interesting, what a journey. That sounds like some of the best endorsement for Bianca - v3 at least. "You keep coming back, for more"

reality is when you have £2000 ish budget theres not that much about which is mind blowing really, but its a good machine, i dont find it as temp stable as the evo, but it has more shot options and a quieter pump, the pump noise being my main driving force…

@"Cuprajake"#p51127 maybe the evo leva is an exception as it's "dual boiler" lever (IIRC), but other levers are said to be very quiet. like the Profitec Pro 800, if you plumb it in it's basically silent

yeah but then you're at the whim of a dipper or hx design..

As long as it makes great espresso and powerful steam, it does not really matter right?

> @"delta76"#p51298 As long as it makes great espresso and powerful steam, it does not really matter right? If your replying to Jakes comment, it does a little bit. It's nice to be able to see the temperature, control temperature, keep it stable and not have to worry about a single boiler design and trying to compromise with brew temperature and steam power.

Lelit Bianca v3 vs Crem One 2B R-LFPP Dual

DavecUK

delta76 Admittedly my view is limited but Crem is not a very popular brand. Then they put a terrible name, One 2B R-LFPP Dual. it’s just terrible. to remember, to write, and definitely, to pronounce.

I have one and mine is very nice, but production seemed to have some issues when it was bought out and also all contacts with the development team were lost to solve problems. The pump noise was easily solvable…but there was no one left to talk to about it.

delta76

DavecUK

I was not aware - so it seems they were Expobar before, got bought out, probably renamed to Crem and moved production to China?

It’s kid of sad I must admit I was interested in it after reading your reviews. They had a very nice machine but it went nowhere because of business decisions

DavecUK

delta76 Expobar were bought out by Crem. Crem were purchased by Wellbuilt and then someone else purchased Wellbuilt.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK Wellbuilt and then someone else purchased Wellbuilt.

https://www.aligroup.it/our-business/our-brands/

They also own Rancilio in their coffee machine segment.

delta76

Ha, interesting. Just looked it up and you might mean

Welbilt. I am glad Lelit is allowed to keep their brand and business, both engineering and sales after the acquisition by Breville

Cuprajake

The cream had sooo much potential.

If you want a gear pump profiler and are in the EU. Ask acs about the Vesuvius. £2000 ish from memory.

delta76

Cuprajake way more. It is close to 3300€.

But as I learned my lesson, i will stick with the most popular machine. Help, support, tips, tricks and parts are easier to come by

JahLaza

delta76 close to 3300€

Is that how much a Vesuvius costs now?

delta76

JahLaza yeah the cheapest i can find for “v10”. Not sure if it is any different. Seems the machine remains largely unchanged since 2015. Quite different to bianca

John_Yossarian

delta76 It is a great machine for playing around and very temperature stable one. I have no idea what V10 entails, version 10? It is usually referred to as V here on the forum.

delta76

John_Yossarian

I have no idea https://www.coffeeitalia.de/acs-vesuvius-v10-silber/

50% more expensive than bianca, or at least 35% where I live. So, no, sadly.

dfk41

delta76 The firm you linked to, unless things have changed recently, do not have a good reputation for aftercare. They are primarily ‘box shifters’ which is why the price is keen. ACS sell the Vesuvius direct cutting out the middleman. Contact them and ask them as they sometimes have machines left over from exhibitions as well. You may find it within your price

John_Yossarian

delta76 I too bought it directly from ACS in 2020. As others have said, it is a marvel of a machine and this technology was brought in more than 9 years ago. I had the same dilemma Bianca or Vesuvius and I am glad I took this decision and ended up with the V.
I still look at new machines but I cannot justify or get excited on buying a new one to replace the current choice.

ACS have been very reliable. I had to change the thermal probe of the steam boiler and they were very quick and cheap with the new steel thermal probes to replace the faulty one.

delta76

dfk41 no i am not interested in buying this machine. Not really. More like curious as it gets mentioned here quite often. However it is not exactly popular. Videos on youtube are mostly from 2015.

As mentioned above i learned my lesson. Better stick with most popular ones. They are popular for a reason, for reasons. They must be doing something right.

As always higher risk higher return. You might get best bang for your buck if you wander off the path. But that is not my philosophy. At least not with this amount of money

Cuprajake

Depends what your buying, acs have always been spot on with me and my Evo was bought used, transferred the 2 year warranty.

Where possible I prefer to buy bricks and motor rather than an online presence, but not always available

Have you settled on the Bianca?

Out of interest how is the price difference from chrome to black or white ?

delta76

Cuprajake

Most likely. I can’t find a better combination of features at the price (~1900 € very often). I can go as far as 2500€ (Synchronika) but not more. I am open to interesting machines but so far it always come back to Bianca v3, Synchronika and Pro 700. I was once intrigued by Izzo Alex Duetto IV Plus which was recommended against (in favor for Bianca) by @DavecUK , and Bezzera Duo/Matrix (can’t remember the reason, probably with limited community around it)

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake Out of interest how is the price difference from chrome to black or white ?

There seems to be a ~ €600 - €700 difference in price depending where you buy it from.

I checked two sites: Maxi Coffee in France and Espresso Perfetto in Germany, which is doing a deal on the Bianca at the moment.

delta76

MediumRoastSteam

cheapest on the stainless steel is currently 1899, cheapest on the black is 2215 Jetzt günstig Espressomaschine (2023) kaufen | Preisvergleich bei idealo so it’s not that much. even less if you compare both from Galaxus (chrome = 1959, black = 2215)

prezes

Just to throw in my 2p worth. I owned Vesuvius since April 2022. Bought directly from ACS and service was superb.

I owned maraX before and was considering a bianca when Vesuvius came up for sale. I never looked back and not had a single moment of upgraditis yet.

It might not be the most modern machine but is very temp stable with easily programmable/repeatable pressure profiling and great steaming performance.

delta76

prezes how did you buy from them directly? I can’t even find their website :o

prezes

delta76 https://www.elcor.it/en/vesuvius-en/

Contact them via email. I know it seems odd but they are reliable, friendly and trustworthy.

Just enquire what they can offer . You don’t need to commit to buy.

delta76

prezes

sent them an email, they seem to be on vacation until later next week. I don’t expect they to offer a good price enough to be within my budget, but we’ll see.

if I may ask, how much did you pay for it?

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