I've just had one land on my bench and I'm impressed. I have had a couple of the DF64 originals and the Gen 2 is a world apart. I ground 2kg of the local supermarkets finest beans and barely paused other than to empty the catch container. Not only did the motor stay cool, the grinds themselves were barely warm. No chute blockages despite keeping the hopper topped up so a continous flow of beans was being ground. Other notable differences include the collar seeming to be made of steel versus the original aluminium thread which was easy to damage, super easy to thread the collar pretty much first time every time, no need to depress the collar when screwing it on, wave spring like the DF64V and current model DF83. Also of note was that it is much lower retention than the original, to the point where I don't think I'll need the bellows - early days but at this stage after 2kg of beans there was virtually no grinds left in the chamber other than the normal bits in the screw cavities and a vigorous use of the bellows dislodged perhaps 0.2 of a gram, virtually nothing. That beats the DF64V in terms of retention but as I say, I need to have it on my bench for a couple of months. Clever anti-popcorning device fits snugly thanks to the rubber gasket/ring around the outside. If you look at the pic of the seasoning it looks like a lot of static but compared to other grinders during seasing, there is much less static so the plasma generator thingy seems to work very well and the anti-clumper screen works extraordinarily well. The burrs are DF burrs and the same geometry at the DF DLC burrs in the DF64V but unlike the latter they are not DLC (diamond like coating) which won't make much difference to me but I'll eventually blind taste test to see if I can spot the difference but I suspect its unlikely. The size is the same as the original but instead of the vinyl wrap exterior the Gen 2 is powder coated. Bigger than the V of course, pic below shows it sitting inbetween a V and a Duo. Other pics show the burr, one side of the grind chamber after 2kg of beans, the wave spring, steel (my guess) thread inside the collar. If, as expected here in Australia, the Gen 2 is around the 1/3rd less than the V its going to present a dilemma for a lot of people between the V and the Gen 2. The V is slimmer of course and has variable RPM. Gen 2 appears to be a result of the manufacturer listening to feedback and acting on it. Plasma generator, steel collar, upgraded burr set (IMHO), less retention, powder coating, better anti-clumping. There will be a lot of Etsy 3D printing shops that will be disappointed at this grinder being pretty much a complete package. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/fclLwGX.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fclLwGX.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/qQ6p0Hl.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/qQ6p0Hl.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/CYLHMEN.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/CYLHMEN.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/4vpGDzu.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/4vpGDzu.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/Fso41xy.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Fso41xy.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@"tompoland"#p54001 This sounds promising, I've got one due to be delivered any day now.

First two pours today. The inbuilt plasma generator genuinely renders RDT a thing of the past with this grinder at least. It may well be one of the lowest retention grinders I've ever used but I'll have to do a few tests on it before I confirm that one. The adjustment I made for the second espresso resulted in a predictable change to the poor time, so that is very encouraging. Surprisingly, the espresso espresso flavour is distinctly different from the same burrs with the DLC coating. I prefer the latter, however, it's just a different style of espresso and still quite interesting, but perhaps a bit more traditional and in offensive, but it's still definitely has a bit of intensity or brightness to it.

Third shot with milk this time. Delish. More coffee flavor punching through than choc-like that the V gives. Not better or worse but as mentioned above I'm really surprised that the same geometry without the DLC coating yields a distinctively differerent flavor. The inbuilt plasma generator is amazing. Zero RDT, almost zero retention (with no use of bellows) and the grinds all sitting at the bottom of the cup with scarcely a one on the walls. I can see it becoming standard in prosumer grinders.

I have bought quite a few grinders from https://www.df64coffee.com (7 in total) and they have given me a discount code for use with my last order, future orders and to share. The code is tompolandcommunity and it should shave 10% off anything you order from that website. I am not receiving commision on sales. df64coffee is an outlet/supplier, not the manufacturer. I've also bought a DF grinder from a local retailer and I'll continue to do that where the price differential is within 15% or so of df64coffee but I'll keep ordering from the latter where the price differential is substantially more or when I simply can't get a certain grinder locally as was the case with the DF64V and DF64 Gen 2 where availability here in Australia was several months after availabity from df64coffee. DF grinders are normally aligned at the factory. If you buy one you'll likely see thin metal shims. However df64coffee also check for alignment of each grinder prior to shipping. Every grinder I've recieved from them has arrived perfectly aligned. I noticed that some grinders came with two sets of shims, one thicker than the other. When I inquired why, df64coffee replied that the thicker shims were the type that they used. Make of that what you will; that the factory alignment is sub-par or that the extra care taken by df64coffee is impressive, or indeed, both. I've seen posts on HB and CS from people asking if df64coffee are kosher because their pricing is generally very sharp but they don't want to take the risk of buying from an unknown supplier. I'm happy to report that I've had reliable support from df64coffee. If I email them, I receive an auto-response to say that I should expect a personalized response within 3 days and to date they have been true to that. So not lightning fast but dependable and helpful nonetheless.

@"tompoland"#p54181 Does this mean you've become…….. an influencer

Bella Barista now have a page up in anticipation of pre orders going live. I'm pulling the trigger as soon as they are available. Seems like a no brainer for the price, it can sit alongside my niche.

@"tompoland"#p54181 £515/$623 for a gen 2 DF64 with SSP MP burrs pre-aligned is very good price.

@"Dusk"#p54191 seems like I'm slowly sliding down that slippery slope. I am going to start a website and YT channel with grinder/burr reviews and compisions Q1 next year. I play around a lot with grinders/burrs and now that I'm semi-retired I want to do a series of blind taste tests between all of the 64mm and 83mm flat burrs that I have (27 and counting). So I may as well publish the results in case that is helpful in this new dawn of prosumer burr-swapping single-dosing grinders. Writing reviews, recording videos and publishing is a pain in the butt, however it provides me with the incentive and discipline to do the work in a relatively robust manner due to the thought that some may spend their hard earned based on a review and that thought has me more mindful of doing a thorough job of the review, (definitely still a work in progress for me). Some will doubtless see this as me going to the dark side, others will gain value. The knockers will knock of course but having been a relatively public figure in business over 40 years I've plenty of practice in studiously ignoring the habitually negative.

@"whinmoor85"#p54206 I suspect that DF will sell truckloads of Gen 2 at that price. I have the original DF64, the DF64V and the DF64 Gen 2 on my bench and the latter really is a grinder that I could recommend as being exceptional value for money. I could not put hand on heart and make that recommendation for the original DF64 or for the current DF83. (**I strongly suspect that the DF83 Gen 2 will be available around the end of this year or early 2024** and if DF do to the 83 what they did to the 64 (either model) it will likely be an impressive upgrade).

@"tompoland"#p54214 thanks for the code. really tempting - what do you prefer, DF64 gen 2, or DF83 v2?

DF64 Gen 2

Dusk

It’s not too dissimilar in the UK depending on where you buy from. The Duo is £658 from Niche but the DF64 gen2 can be had from df64coffee for ~£365 so it’s not far off double for the Niche.

dfk41

Dusk £365 so it’s not far off double for the Niche.

Maybe there is a reason for that price difference?

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - understood. However, the company in question here according to this post:

Dusk It’s not too dissimilar in the UK depending on where you buy from. The Duo is £658 from Niche but the DF64 gen2 can be had from df64coffee for _£365 so it’s not far off double for the Niche.

Is an ~~American~~ Singaporean distributor. Not a Chinese company.

https://www.espressooutlet.net/espresso-outlet-blog/is-df64coffeecom-the-official-df64-grinder-manufacturer-website/

So I’m still confused. Honestly.

Dusk

dfk41

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a bit, maybe not all.

DavecUK

Dusk Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a bit, maybe not all.

There are differences

declared value (VAT impact)
Tax location of company
Special subsidised shipping rate (perversely, subsidised by our taxes)
long term support
Market dumping

If the Chinese keep on, eventually there won’t be any bricks and mortar retailers left and the only place to buy a grinder will be online from China….which would be a very bad thing for the consumer.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK eventually there won’t be any bricks and mortar retailers left and the only place to buy a grinder will be online from China….which would be a very bad thing for the consumer.

Appreciate Niche is a British company. But essentially… we are buying it online, and from China. Maybe they keep some stock in the UK, I don’t know. But the point being is that it boils down to money at the end of the day. One could argue it would benefit the UK economy if they had a factory here, but then it would be very unlikely they would be able to sell for the prices they do.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam But essentially… we are buying it online, and from China

Don’t be daft! You are buying it online, direct from the company that manufacture and designed it, and supply a fantastic warranty. China assemble it and have no other input. If you were buying direct from a Chinese based company and it goes wrong, what do you think would happen

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Appreciate Niche is a British company. But essentially… we are buying it online, and from China. Maybe they keep some stock in the UK, I don’t know.

You are buying online from the UK and from a UK company who pays taxes and VAT as appropriate in the UK. In Europe or other countries local VAT and Taxes are paid by individuals as there is no under declaration. Also your consumer rights are maintained. It is a very different business model to the Chinese grinder company (ies). These companies rely on people not realising this.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - I get it. But we are buying a fantastic product online and from china, are we not ? Or did you go to a bricks and mortar shop to buy yours? 😉

tompoland

dfk41 If you were buying direct from a Chinese based company and it goes wrong, what do you think would happen

I’ve bought quite a lot from China direct and on the handful of occasions I’ve needed a warranty issue addressed, the support has been world class.

Times have changed.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam I went to the Niche UK based online store. Niche sell in the UK and across the world so all sales pay into the UK economy in one way or another. So, presuming the building Niche store their stock in is built from bricks and mortar, then you have answered your own, not so clever question

MediumRoastSteam

I’m still confused. What if I stocked lots of the same Chinese made grinders, built a nice and polished website, paid all my UK taxes and offered a two year no quibbles guarantee? Would that be acceptable?

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam I’m still confused. What if I stocked lots of the same Chinese made grinders, built a nice and polished website, paid all my UK taxes and offered a two year no quibbles guarantee? Would that be acceptable?

Perfectly, but that is not the Chinese way of doing things

tompoland

dfk41 David, with respect, that comment needs moderating. I’m sure you have a basis for that comment but it’s at the very least out of date and at the other end of the spectrum it could be construed as racist, which I am genuinely sure was not your intention.

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam df64coffee is based in Singapore and has a regional distribution license. Each region has a different distributor. In the US the distributor is Turin Grinders but Espresso Outlet may have a license too. Not sure. It may be that the US is such a bit market that there is more than one distributor. Here in Australia it’s Coffee Tech.

dfk41

tompoland David, with respect, that comment needs moderating. I’m sure you have a basis for that comment but it’s at the very least out of date and at the other end of the spectrum it could be construed as racist, which I am genuinely sure was not your intention.

Bollocks Tom……please do not play that card. I am free to say what I think. If you are in the UK which we are, and someone bought a grinder direct from a Chinese company, then unless they pay the cost of return postage on behalf of the client it would simply not be feasible

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland df64coffee is based in Singapore

Thanks for correcting me. Got distracted even though it’s written quite clearly it’s based in Singapore in the link I referred. (Original post corrected for clarity)

drdre89

Also I think ‘Niche’ is considered the ‘Apple’ of the coffee world …. While the DF line would be considered the Android equivalent….

Being the ‘Apple’ in the coffee world means they charge whatever the hell they like and ppl will still buy

dfk41

drdre89 Being the ‘Apple’ in the coffee world means they charge whatever the hell they like and ppl will still buy

So do you think Niche overcharge then? The Zero stayed the same price from launch until earlier this year. Odd hey

tompoland

dfk41 not a surprising response David. My post was respectful and factual. Let’s move on.

drdre89

dfk41 So do you think Niche overcharge then?

We live in a false inverted Matrix so nothing makes sense in this world. It was designed that way.

dfk41

tompoland When you play God Tom, do not be surprised if not everyone agrees with you.

« Previous Page Next Page »