I am sure that this argument has been discussed many times before, and will be discussed many times going into the future. What I am looking for, is folks who have either had or got both at the same time. I have. At the start of lock down 1, I had a Clima Pro and a Niche. The Pro was brand new and barely run in. My coffee habit always has been folks dropping in and out in a day, therefore the convenience of running a hopper fed grinder appealed. When you run this system, you have to accept tolerances of probably + or - 1 gram or more. Single dosing does away with this but then a whole new shot routine comes in. When was the last time you saw them single dose, invert into the pf. Level, stir, genuflect etc etc........and all for what? So, back on topic, I decided to put the 2 Grinders up against each other for a good few weeks. The result was that the CP won hands down in most aspects, but the Niche for me, edged it in the taste test. So, my question is, can any other dual on owner, give me their thoughts on the same bean in a flat v conical taste off please?

@"dfk41"#p3294 - I'm interested in knowing the results here. But, it's important to specify what beans one are using, as it might be that one type of grinder is more suitable (taste wise) for a given type of bean and roast profile. As an example, and no offence, as we all know taste is subjective and thankfully we all don't have the same tastes, for myself at least, there's no point the Niche being the "winner" if the beans were dark roasted. I'm not a fan of those, so any results of such comparison are meaningless, to me at least. @"dfk41"#p3294 - I assume your comparison was using dark roasted beans?

Same here. I hope experienced folks who have or have had the luxury of using both will chip in. I know views / recollection based on memory is not ideal. I am looking at light to medium roasts. Edit : I can see myself getting an electrical grinder. Flat or Conical is the biggest dilemma, although my heart says Flat! 😊

The one thing that does concern me is the cognoscenti who make pronunciations on a grinder or grinders, it's performance, the coffee….in a video lasting 20 minutes, and you never see unedited video of: * The grinders grinding shots * actual weight in/out * them opening the burr chamber and to show you what's inside * how you clean it and what really comes out * how you remove the burrs/carriers * the shots made by the grinder using a naked portafilter I personally think the way grinder reviews are done is appalling, and how anyone can use them to make a decision is beyond me. I guess it was similar for machine reviews, before I appeared on the scene and started removing the cases….which is now commonplace.

i cant really talk conical vs flat, but i can deffo say stock flat vs ssp burrs are different again, i find the stock burrs more acidic, were the ssp bring more sweetness and clarity.

@"Cuprajake"#p3311 @"Cuprajake"#p3311 what kind of ssp burrs and in what grinder? hu/multipurpose/unimodal

Yes, I use darker beans, so I suggest a description and photo. Not dark be definition but certainly medium and a bit more. I always take @"DavecUK"#1 as a measuring point and he drinks medium and a bit lighter yet uses the Niche and is a super taster!

hi, 83mm hu ssp in a mazzer major :)

@"Cuprajake"#p3311 What a combo? Sorry for being nosy! How much did that set you back, if I may ask, please ? You don’t have to answer, if you don’t want to. Thx Jake.

the grinder was a 2019 model off ebay im sure it was £240 del then the burrs were $350usd and i dont think i got import tax on them, but could be wrong so about £500 in total, i did have a wong doserless kit at one point, but went to a funne [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/fwI3vUi.jpeg ]

@"Cuprajake"#p3348 That’s a cracking deal for the 2019 model. Well done! 👏

Flat versus Conical

pjw

dfk41 Yes, there was something special about K10.

John_Yossarian

I am just leaving this here that confirms quite a few references.
https://simonelli-group.com/en/mythos-by-victoria-arduino-is-the-2022-2025-world-barista-championship-qualified-espresso-grinder/#msdynttrid=_pTmBlgj0q3FY-uIx2bsQ_UeWytiSnjDMG9jPv4FZ_E

CafeNoir

DavecUK Lol, this is my aim, I love the Niche workflow but am prepared to tolerate a small amount of faff for the ability to mix n match. On a budget, alas.

Your comment on varying speed resonates, its what some high end flats are capable of and I’m hoping (futilely perhaps) that the Fiorenzato F6 with its inverter motor technology might be able to achieve something like this without harming the motor. Any informed advice would be appreciated.

Ixorya

Oh my, this topic is exactly the thing I am thinking about! I am now contemplating between the Niche Zero and the DF64 (64mm flat burrs, upgradable to SSP burrs). The price difference is quite substantial where I stay.

Niche Zero - SGD 907 / USD 668 / EUR 600

DF64 (Standard Steel Burrs) - SGD 560 / USD 413 / EUR 371

DF64 (SSP Burrs) - SGD 790 / USD 582 / EUR 523

*all prices rounded to the nearest dollar, price inclusive of importing tax for niche zero

From all the information I have gathered, I would think for overall ease of use, niche zero would stand out. Whereas DF64 would stand out in terms of the price and the use of the SSP burr set.

Now I think the question for myself would be which is more important? Ease of use? Or clarity of the cup? I am also contemplating getting the DF64 with standard burrs and upgrading later down the road.

*Disclaimer: I am a beginner and have only ever used hand grinders (currently 1zpresso JX) so all the above are assumptions from lots of research. I do know I prefer clarity in my coffee.

DavecUK

Ixorya I think with the price differences involved, your stated preferences and the fact you like how they both look. Apart from the workflow, the DF64 would seem to be your logical choice, then see if you want to upgrade to SSP burrs later as it uses the Italmill burr set, not my favourite, but it works OK.

drdre89

For aesthetics, the Niche does look great on a kitchen counter if thats your thing.

The DF64 does look like its Chinese made, but i’m sure it makes great tasty shots.

Ixorya

drdre89

AHAHA! Yes, aesthetics matters to me. But oddly I am ok with the looks of both grinders. Intend to get either one in white to match my futuristic white ACS Minima (with the wooden finish!). 😂😂

dutchy101

I have the Solo (DF64) and I love it. There is definitely a bit more of an effort required in terms of workflow to the Niche, but I was fully aware if this and prepared for that when I decided to buy it.

Maybe check out @DavecUK’ reviews of both grinders before making a decision. Dave also tried upgrading the burrs on the Solo to TiN burrs and didn’t think it was worth changing from the stock burrs.

Dave’s Solo review here:

https://news.bellabarista.co.uk/the-solo-the-new-single-dose-espresso-grinder/

Niche review here:

https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/pages/testimonials#reviewssection

dutchy101

This is how the Solo looks with the Minima, albeit in black. I actually prefered the look of the Solo to the Niche, which was an important factor in me choosing it

drdre89

dutchy101 looks awesome ! … the DF64 plastic dosing cup is not my fave, but atleast you can see how much coffee you have in the cup

LMSC

dutchy101 Very nice set up. All black Minima is pretty.

dutchy101

drdre89

Agreed on the dosing cup. Not sure if you can make it out in the pic, but I have a stainless 58mm dosing cup whuch I sit inside the plastic dosing cup and it sits really neatly rught under the chute.

I tend to push my knockbox up against the cup when grinding to make sure it doesn’t fall out when grinding (one of Hoffman’s main gripes with this grinder in his review). Not as neat as the Niche workflow, but it works for me.

I’ve seen people 3d printing alternative dosing cup holders to get the cup closer to the chute which I might look into ideally if my stainless cup fits in that I’d bin off the plastic one altogether

Ixorya

dutchy101 Oh my, the black set looks good too. @.@

@DavecUK thank you for the suggestion and the in-depth review. Really did answer a lot of my questions. I like that the DF64 is a good “all-rounder” grinder. Since I switch between brew methods often. How is your experience switching brew methods? I’ll watch the videos attached to the review tomorrow to get a better idea of the grinder. 😁

Thank you all for the valuable input. I am learning a lot. 😁

Pompeyexile

I have never had the chance to try a side by side comparison but in all honesty, I suspect I never will have the ability to really taste the difference between the same beans ground on flat or conical burrs. I also do not have the space or funds (or agreement from my other half) to have two grinders of reasonable quality. So, for me it is a case of listening to those with far more experience and getting a grinder that I think is for the money, a decent all rounder… and the Niche fits the bill.

Even if Niche bring out a flat burr version I could still never get one, because of the reasons above and I guess if I’m being honest, also because I’m just not that inquisitive enough about finding and experiencing the nuances that coffee, like expensive wines or Michelin star prepared food can provide. A tasty cup that is far superior than instant will do me.

But I get where many of you are coming from… your passion for your ‘hobby’ is to be admired.

DavecUK

Ixorya How is your experience switching brew methods? I’ll watch the videos attached to the review tomorrow to get a better idea of the grinder

It was OK, not real problems that I remember…not quite as slick to adjust as a Niche.

Ixorya

DavecUK Great to know! Thank you!

Another question, is a 30 SGD / 20 EUR / 22 USD upgrade to the titanium burrs worth it? Or not really since might upgrade to the SSP burrs in the future?

DavecUK

Ixorya Another question, is a 30 SGD / 20 EUR / 22 USD upgrade to the titanium burrs worth it? Or not really since might

Lake_M

Out of curiosity I asked Hansung Lee how much a set of SSP’s would be for my E37s (83mm), he quoted 350USD incl Fedex to the UK. There will probably be VAT and import tax on top of that at the border. So not a cheap upgrade!!

Cuprajake

I cant remember if i paid import on my ssp when i got them, im thinking i did

Emc2

Lake_M My experience is similar. I have a Niche and a modified super jolly. I roast my own beans- not very well I must confess. The Super jolly seems to be more forgiving. There’s nowhere to hide with the Niche. Perhaps that’s why I prefer the super jolly!

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