New user here, came across this forum trying to figure out an issue with my Lelit Elizabeth and it seems there is a lot of technical knowledge here. I have a Lelit Elizabeth and I decided to try pre-infusion. I adjusted it to 3 seconds in the hidden service menu, and 10s in the quick access LCC menu and when I run a shot the pressure gauge hardly moves at all. Something wrong with it? The pump kicks in for 3 sec as it should, but then nothing happens on the gauge (it barely gets to .5 bar) for the next 7 seconds. Machine is second hand, so no warranty. I know the gauge works as it shows pressure when I do a regular shot. I know the steam boiler works too since I can steam milk. I tried pushing the boiler temp at 140°C and it made no difference. Also, the EVS setting is set to 1, and the boiler is on in the LCC menu. ![](https://i.imgur.com/KgPMEu2.jpg "Solenoid") So I opened it. I watched several videos from Lelit insider and understood that the solenoid valve close to the group head has two functions: \- it opens when the steam boiler needs fresh water. \- it opens during steam pre-infusion. So essentially, water can travel both ways through the hoses. The solenoid must work as the machine refills the boiler when needed. I ran tests with the top off and I can see water travelling to the boiler. During preinfusion, I couldn't quite see water travelling the other way round, but it's more about pressure being applied to the water than water actually travelling. I measured the voltage at the solenoid during pre-infusion and it's behaving as in the videos mentioned above. I have 230volts at the solenoid during the whole pre-infusion phase. So I can rule out an electrical/electronic bug. So who are the potential culprits? \- *a faulty/clogged solenoid valve?* which doesn't open enough? Water could refill because the pump pressure can sustain 10+ bars, but the 2-2.5 bars from the steam boiler can't pass the blockage? \- *faulty steam boiler?* It works flawlessly at the steam wand, but it's not using the same port to provide pre-infusion. My knowledge of coffee boilers is too lean to know if there are one way valves inside them or something that could cause the issue. Happy to hear your thoughts. Who could be another culprit? The 3-way solenoid valve? It works during coffee extraction though.

Welcome to the forum, sounds like it's all set OK for steam preinfusion https://sway.office.com/S5J4d9Jp4Y9LdVFx?ref=Link Check out my sway, and see if all your settings are definitely correct. It could be that solenoid is simply not working, at least to the brew boiler path?

@"pierrox"#p58267 - welcome. What happens when you draw 300ml of water from the hot water tap, when both boilers are on and the machine fully warmed up. Do you hear the steam boiler filling up afterwards? If so, then that solenoid is working.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p58334 Thanks guys! I did come across your sway but I'll double check. When I see demos and videos, the pressure gauge goes up to 2-3 bars during pre infusion. On mine it barely moves with coffee, and with the blind filter it hits less than .5 bar Yes the boiler fills up, I even tested this without the cover and I can see the water going to the boiler (thanks to small bubbles). During pre infusion I don't see any movement. I'm not expecting much movement though, since the steam is just supposed to push the water sitting on the puck. It's very puzzling

Ok… so: EVS is set to 1; Pump run is set to 3 seconds; Steam Boiler temp is 140C; Steam Boiler fills, so there are no blockages and solenoid is obviously open; Pre-infusion is set to 10s. Try this: Purge a little water from the hot water tap (10ml) Purge water from the group (10ml) Purge the steam wand Go about making your coffee. If you use a blind basket, make sure it’s full of water. Any better? The only thing I can think of is you are doing something which is causing a void in the brew boiler, so the pressure cannot build up. Failing that, the other possibility could be that, for whichever reason, the solenoid is kept shut during steam pre-infusion.

I'll try this in a minute. The boiler has plenty pressure since I can steam milk pretty quickly (so much faster than my previous Victoria!) I will clean the solenoid. It gets power during pre infusion, I measured it with a voltmeter - got the idea from a video by Lelit Insider. On yours, if you start a shot without the porta filter, does water run during all the pre infusion phase? And if so, at what rate?

@"pierrox"#p58340 - water does run during the pre-infusion phase. I can’t quantity the rate. It’s more like fast flowing drips rather than a steady stream if that makes sense.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p58343 Makes sense, from my understanding it's pushed from the steam boiler. With no resistance from the filter, it flows. Mine does this too.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p58338 Try this: > Purge a little water from the hot water tap (10ml) > Purge water from the group (10ml) > Purge the steam wand Tried, and it's the same. I triple checked: EVS=1, 4 seconds BLS1/2, 10seconds total PI. And it's still the same. With the blind basket on, the gauge moves about 1/4 of a graduation. I don't quite get how a boiler could be faulty, it's very basic in its operation. The solenoid valve? It's supposed to be a 2 way from what I understand.

Indeed it’s puzzling. What about when you use bloom pre-infusion. What do you get?

When I press the button, the pump runs for 4 seconds (as set in the factory menu), pressure builds up to 9 bars. Then the pump stops, the machine waits until 10s (adjusted in LCC) and then it resumes. Pressure drops during the pause as nothing sustains it. Is this how it's supposed to work?

Hello!

MediumRoastSteam

I’ll do this tomorrow. If I haven’t by the end of the day, please remind me!

Merry Christmas!

pierrox

MediumRoastSteam Thanks a lot!

@DavecUK and @Cuprajake if you have a moment to try this too, would be amazing!

Cuprajake

pierrox I have a Bianca sorry

MediumRoastSteam

pierrox - I’ve got 100g. Approx. 35g was when the pump was running for 4 seconds right at the start, the other 65g was water being pushed out by the steam boiler pressure, which was confirmed by the pump refilling the steam boiler as soon as I stopped the shot.

So… fair to say you don’t have a problem as such, I don’t think? Also, if you increase your steam temperature to 140C, does the gauge move to approx 1 bar? And finally, I take the steam offset parameter (ES) is set to 0 in the advanced menu?

MediumRoastSteam

pierrox - before doing the procedure I will flush the group until the first drop appears. I find that this can take sometimes between 1 and 2 seconds, which would influence the outcome of the test. You might want to repeat it like so.

pierrox

Thanks for running this test. Glad to know my problem is probably just a bad gauge/sensor!

I’ll test it in the new year and report.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in, now it’s time to enjoy a coffee by the fire on this Xmas day. 🎅☕️

pierrox

Happy new year to everyone, with plenty nice coffees and occasions to share them.

Update on my Elizabeth. So I borrowed this scace and here is what I’m reading:

Hard to tell because of the angle but basically I get 1.5 bar of pressure during PI at 135°C. Meanwhile the gauge on the machine barely gets above 0. So at least something is happening. I’m not at the 3 bar I’ve seen on YouTube but I’ve got some pressure.

During extraction, gauge goes to 10 whilst portafilter shows 9 bar.

I’ve ordered a gauge since it costs less than 20€ and I needed some other parts. We’ll see if it shows more PI pressure.

Still weird but at least I think it’s usable. As opposed to useless.

MediumRoastSteam

What do you get when you apply full pressure? What are the readings on each gauge?

pierrox

MediumRoastSteam

It goes to what is expected: 9 bars on the gauge, which translated to 8 at the portafilter. I then adjusted the OPV to have 9 at the filter and I now have 10 at the gauge.

So if the gauge was overestimating by 1 bar, it should show at least 2/2.5 bar during PI. I assume those are not linear though as they are analog.

MediumRoastSteam

Indeed. I think the machine gauge is not very accurate, and, as you checked out yourself, the machine seems to be working correctly and as expected - just shame about the machine gauge.

pierrox

Saturday update!

Thanks to LaMacchinaDelCaffe, I received a new gauge for a whooping 17€. So I installed it this Saturday. Took the opportunity to buy a couple of silicon head gaskets and an insulation sleeve for the main boiler.

Good news is the gauge needle moves!

Bad news is that it’s lying to me as 9 bars during extraction (blind basket) at the group reads as 12 on the gauge! 🤣

Oh well, I can live with this. At the end of day, it’s been a good learning experience. I learned a lot about this machine. It was also a perfect opportunity to add insulation to the boiler, whilst also cleaning some of the slightly oxidised connections. I know the pressure is ok at the group, so at least it looks good to have some needle action during pre infusion!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with advice and help.

DavecUK

pierrox Bad news is that it’s lying to me as 9 bars during extraction (blind basket) at the group reads as 12 on the gauge! 🤣

It’s unusual for a gauge to be that far out?

pierrox

The old one “only” lied by 1 or 1.5 bar. And clearly it was not a linear misalignment.

On my previous machine, a Victoria, the gauge was spot on.

DavecUK

pierrox The old one “only” lied by 1 or 1.5 bar. And clearly it was not a linear misalignment.

On my previous machine, a Victoria, the gauge was spot on.

It’s rare though because 95% of espresso machine gauges are made by Orman, who rebrand them for most espresso machine manufacturers? You would think they would have got it spot on and consistent by now?

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK It’s rare though because 95% of espresso machine gauges are made by Orman, who rebrand them for most espresso machine manufacturers? You would think they would have got it spot on and consistent by now?

pierrox I had a feeling the new one was over reality, which my bike pump test confirmed. It’s not marginally over, we’re talking about almost more than 2 bar above the bike pump, which itself is pretty precise.

Given Dave’s comment above - maybe you got a “rare” lemon? Maybe worthwhile sending it back?

pierrox

True. Or there is a big discrepancy between the pressure at the portafilter and at the 3 way solenoid. Having said that, I didn’t change any setting, I just swapped the gauge and the new one read 2 more bars than the original one.

pierrox

Ran a little test today on the old gauge. Didn’t think about doing so with the new one. Next time I dismantle the machine I guess…

So I have this fancy high end bike pump and I know it’s pretty precise. Having compared its display to a professional digital gauge.

And it shows that the early theory (gauge is faulty at low pressure) is probably the correct one. 😉

At 2 bar on the pump, gauge shows barely above 1:

At 3 on the pump, the gauge is at 2:

At 4 on the pump, the gauge finally wakes up and is closer to the truth:

And at 8.5 bar, the gauge is almost spot on:

I wonder if the gauge was problematic since day one - I know the previous owner got some repairs done under warranty, but no details. Or if scale slowly affected it. I might let it soak in descaler as a useless experiment for another rainy Sunday!

MediumRoastSteam

pierrox - so… are you saying the old gauge wasn’t faulty? I don’t think I’m following :)

pierrox

MediumRoastSteam

Sorry I wasn’t clear, I’ll edit.

One of the theories was that the gauge was faulty at low pressure and correct at extraction pressure. And yep it’s the case as it clearly underestimates below 3 bar and it’s correct in the 8bar+ pressure.

MediumRoastSteam

pierrox - understood. But is that for both gauges?

Edit: presumably you don’t know if that’s the case for the new one because you haven’t checked it via the same bicycle pump method. Man… I’ll be dying to double check that, even though it’s a total PITA! 🤣🤣🤣👍👍

pierrox

Yep, I didn’t think about testing the new one before installation… Don’t push me! 🤣

Yep it’s a complete PITA as I had to remove the back cover and the partition between the water tank to access the 3-way solenoid. If the gauge hadn’t been tightened by a psychopath, I could have undone it from the top!

Let’s see how long I can live before I reopen the machine! 🙃

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