I got this included with another purchase, looking at the photo what size (in Kruves) would you say my grind size is? [URL=https://i.imgur.com/8sRJaTa.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/8sRJaTa.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Brewler grind size assessment

MWJB

I got this included with another purchase, looking at the photo what size (in Kruves) would you say my grind size is?

Platypus

I’m itching to know the answer 😆 Do you have to try to work out an average from all the different shapes and sizes ? Completely wrong I’m sure but between 1100-1300 so 1200?

MWJB

Platypus Thank you for having a crack, it would be good to get a few responses before I confirm whether you are correct. (Participation on 2 forums and Instagram is pretty low…so maybe give me a nudge in a few days).

LMSC

@MWJB I missed this post. I sift just with 400 Kruve at the base and nothing on top.

I do not know how much the resolution of the images would impact the particle sizes.

However, I see some fines across the the images. They are unlikely to have slipped through the 400 Kruve sieve.

I see chuffs and large particles, which may not go through even the largest 1600 Kruve sieve.

I know you sift with sieves both at the bottom and the top. If you have in this case, this may be the sifted coffee from the mid-segment - between 400 Kruve and 1600 Kruve! However, the presence of large chaffs suggest just 400 Kruve.

MWJB

LMSC Shown is an unsifted sample straight from the grinder, so it’s representative of the whole grind size distribution.

james65477564

I gravitated towards 1200

Platypus

MWJB

MWJB Shown is an unsifted sample straight from the grinder, so it’s representative of the whole grind size distribution.

Sorry if this is a daft question but in this case does this tool have a use, if any ,for communicating grind size if you don’t own the sifter set?

MWJB

Platypus It’s not a daft question at all. Ideally, the Brewler should be able to be used without the Kruve sifter set. However, as I have a sifter set I can verify what the grind size is.

I’m just interested in how people use the Brewler, their approach/logic when doing so.

MWJB

Thanks to those who responded, I didn’t get any feedback on the other forum, nor on Instagram. I can only assume that is because no one has a workable strategy. I guess it’s always possible that people don’t care one way or the other, but c’mon now, that doesn’t seem likely, does it?…:-)

As best as I can determine the average (median) grind size is close to 1000Kruve.

We have 39% at 900, so we know the average is larger than 900. We have 67% at 1100, so we know the average is smaller than this. The halfway point between the two is 995 and I estimate we have 53% here, so maybe 950Kruve.

There is 8% at 400 Kruve, then for every 100Kruve interval an average of 7.7%, though around the average (900-1200) an average of 13% per 100Kruve. For the life of me, I cannot fathom how, when looking at the grinds you can sort them by size, by eye and then calculate thier respective weights & see which ones are near the average?

It takes a couple of minutes to sift a sample, then a few more to weigh the grinds in each sifter. To spread grinds out on a background so that you can see them well enough to use the Brewler takes a couple of minutes too.

The other point being, we really want to know where the 8-16% (give or take) lies to calibrate for a brew method.

I’d take any Brewler based grind size suggestions with a very hefty pinch of salt.

Platypus

MWJB For the life of me, I cannot fathom how, when looking at the grinds you can sort them by size, by eye

Neither can I unless you’re Steve Austin with his bionic eye! ( probably before your time)
Out of interest can I ask do you use the Kruve purely for grinder information/feedback or do you ever discard the fines?

james65477564

Interesting. As I look at it again even knowing the answer I am drawn towards 1200-1400. I wonder if people could learn to calibrate their guesstimates based on this feedback loop which might end up faster?

I suppose it is way more accurate than people saying grind it ‘medium-coarse’ which is meaningless?

MWJB

james65477564 I suppose it is way more accurate than people saying grind it ‘medium-coarse’ which is meaningless?

Yes, pretty meaningless without some kind of tangible scale. But, back in the 50’s E.E. Lockhart classified grinds by a certain % passing through a #28 Tyler 600 micron sieve (closest equivalent Kruve sieve is 700Kruve).

E.g. 15-25% (20%) passing through would be a *Coarse, manual drip/pour over grind. In the Commandante X25 @21 plot above, as used for my current 13.8g:200g pour overs, the grind is 23% at 700Kruve/21% 600um.

‘Coarse medium’, 25-35% (30%) passing through would be vacuum pot/siphon grind, also adopted by the SCAA as ‘cupping’ grind & Agtron spec. This can also be used for finer manual drip/pour over, though not as fine as you can conceivably go, perhaps think of it as a typical/medium pour over grind? It’s too coarse, in my opinion, for cupping if you want a decent level of extraction.

‘Medium coarse’ would be 35-45% (40%) passing through.

Medium would be 45-55% (50%) passing through, ECBC (Nordic) auto drip grind.

Platypus

Considering the importance of grind size I’m surprised someone hasn’t comes up with some sort of electronic particle size analyser tool for domestic use that’s affordable, quick to use and fairly accurate. I suspect the “affordability “ would be the problem but something similar to the Agtron or Tonino roast colour analysers .
I did stumble across this when googling :-
https://coffeeadastra.com/2019/04/07/an-app-to-measure-your-coffee-grind-size-distribution-2/

MWJB

Platypus OK, something like this seems interesting but what is it correlated to? Where is the data linking it to a recipe and how long does it take to set up for a photo, or photos? Sifting takes me 2:00, plus a few min to sweep each section into a catch cup to weigh.

I like charts/plots/curves, but a sharable datum is really the intent. E.g. the 8% (avg 10% +/-2% for the grinders I am using) at 400 or the 11% at 500Kruve in the plot above - between 2 different, dialled in, grinders the average size could be 100Kruve apart for the same, workable recipe (in this case V60 or Switch 02 with Drip Assist, 13.8g coffee, 200g water, 5 pours of 40g every 40s, each pour taking 15s, first 2 in the middle, last 3 in the ring).

Never tried the app in your link, most recently with respect to the Pulsar, Gagne was suggesting using the Brewler to estimate grind size, but I’ve also seen some other, very pricey imaging tech that produces questionable results.

MWJB

Platypus “We can rebuild him, we have the technology…”, had the t-shirt and action figure, whose head you could look through to make things look smaller…? Don’t quite know what they were shooting for there. The $37 million dollar man (allowing for inflation).

I never discard the fines in day-to-day percolation brewing, it’s actually a really bad idea - you’re better off discarding boulders (coarser sieves are faster to use too). Very occasionally I might sift fines for immersion brews, but it’s still a faff. Better to use a larger sieve of 8″ or more for speed. Mostly I just try and get the grind setting right on the grinder 😀