Evening looks like the Philios is out in the wild (well to someone on youtube !) Looking forward to the review https://youtube.com/shorts/a0Upq7N2v0E?si=O01ykOp7RBmrD5ff

Excitement builds!! Looking at the architecture it looks like someone in the UK too! I have absolutely zero interest in what the influencers think of this one, it’s a day one purchase for me.

@"HarveyMushman"#p60274 yes he is defo in the Uk - i do like his videos! I have not ordered the gbw allground - kinda waiting to see what the philos is like.. tbh nothing wrong with my current allground….. Still cannot see a price officially on the mazzer site - nor of they will have a reseller in the UK rather than a import from Venice.

I might’ve imagined this but I think @"DavecUK"#1 suggested Mazzer will retail this themselves and aim for a sub £1k price point (possibly for early adopters, with a later price rise). I’ve been waiting years for a single-dose, multi-method grinder from a heritage manufacturer that I like the design of. The latter two usually being the reason for me not buying anything yet. Tbh, even if it’s not perfect it’ll be an upgrade on my current setup and like the LM, just nice to own and use.

Looks great. I think I’ve read somewhere it’s between 900-100 euros.

@"Emc2"#p60303 I wish it was a 100 euros 😂

Quick snap from youtube as he has it on the shelf - and gives some nice size comparisons [URL=https://i.imgur.com/c1yDEj3.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/c1yDEj3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Rumours on HB, so take this with a pinch of salt, are that the Philos has been delayed. Wouldn’t surprise me given the impact global conflicts on supply chains.

Yeah I saw that. Though made me laugh that places took deposits and then refunded especially as I thought that mazzer were selling them direct to start with… but theres no info in the mazzer site either. Just waiting to see the review tbh - anyhow my blind shaker is about to arrive - so something else to play with 😂

Yeah the retailers I've spoken to in the UK said they had no plans to stock it. Looks like it will indeed be Mazzer direct. I can see the reviews being disappointing. There's no shortage of low priced 64mm flats and people who don't care about build quality, place of build and manufacturer heritage are going to say it's overpriced and find plenty of flaws I'm sure. It's an interesting price point because you can get capable single dosers for half the price or less, and it's obviously not going to compete with the top-end grinders like Kafateks etc. I think the only way this will sell well in the current market is if influencers really get behind it. Then again, I don't think Mazzer necessarily need it to sell massively well as the home market still isn't their bread and butter. I'm excited for it and have said before, will be buying it regardless but I don't expect it to be a flawless grinder.

depends really, the build should be better than that of the df and time mores, you would think, but its a saturated market there has been a zerno fs and a kafatec and weber eg1 all around £1500 on the old forum

Mazzer Philos

HarveyMushman

MWJB

Yeah that’s a good point. I guess as you say it just stops the beans flying out.

Teaboy

HarveyMushman I am looking forward to mine arriving soon.

DavecUK

JammyDodger It’s just it nothing really special,

Grind adjustment at the back is awkward and difficult to see
cleaning behind the rear burr carrier not easily possible
didn’t like the doodad for cleaning out the funnel
Quite large
probably not even worth what they are charging at the launch price
front wingnuts are awkward

JammyDodger

Thanks Dave that’s helpful to know

HarveyMushman

I get there’s a price difference but there seems to be an enormous chasm of difference between ‘nothing special’ and the praise being lauded on the BB 64.

Not saying this is the case but it seems like people just want to dislike the Mazzer.

For starters, given it’s a company who’ve made some of the highest regarded burrs in coffee, it’s unlikely to be bad in the cup.

dfk41

HarveyMushman For starters, given it’s a company who’ve made some of the highest regarded burrs in coffee, it’s unlikely to be bad in the cup.

I do not think anyone disputes that……Dave has had his hands on both grinders. No doubt there will have been some development between then and now, so it is fair comment to me, for him to say when asked, how he found the Philos then…..

HarveyMushman

I guess it’s just a shame we didn’t get a full test like the T64 rather than impressions from the models at Host.

I value Dave’s opinion like a lot of sensible folk in the coffee community do. I thought from the original clips posted at Host it seemed like there was a bit of interest piqued but obviously not. It’s just hard to get a good idea of how good/bad something is when nobody you really trust the opinion of has given it a more in-depth test.

Happy to be the guinea pig in this case.

dfk41

HarveyMushman I think Dave was offered the chance to receive it and test it but decided not to

HarveyMushman

dfk41

Yeah I don’t blame him really as you open yourself up to criticism if people don’t get the outcome they want, especially with a popular product.

DavecUK

HarveyMushman Yeah I don’t blame him really as you open yourself up to criticism if people don’t get the outcome they want, especially with a popular product.

That was a consideration. Had it been OK, but not really anything special, I would have been a voice in the darkness as the influencers all bigged it up and made myself look stupid/open to heavy criticism. You have to remember I have been in this position before when BB asked me to review the Baratza (then Malkhoenig) Vario they wanted to sell. I didn’t give it a stellar review at all, in fact it really wasn’t a great grinder…I got loads of flack for that as it was the latest sweetheart grinder, heavily bigged up by all and especially on HB etc..

BB even decided to still stock the thing, as even though I had not given it a good review, people were still gagging for it….but in the end all the things I said were proved right, all the things I predicted would happen did, and people realised it wasn’t that good. I especially didn’t like the ceramic burrs! I don’t think anyone buys the grinder now!

HarveyMushman

DavecUK

That makes sense. Highlights how sad it is that we can’t get honest reviews from people whose opinion matters yet we get plenty of dishonest reviews from people whose doesn’t.

JonWoo187

DavecUK Actually yep not long ago I did… I had a very early Vario years ago and found the grind quality to be quite good, but the build quality/wear related parts in that thing just left a sour note for me with Baratza. Since then I’ve had various quality flat/conical grinders, electric and manual. Not long ago I decided to get Baratza’s latest updated Forte AP and will honestly say it’s definitely far better than that early Vario. I don’t buy into different burr sets giving that much difference in actual taste, but will honestly say I clearly notice quite a bit of difference in texture between burr types, as in espresso-specific. The ceramics in it might be somewhat outdated to some, makes no difference to me as the texture I get from them when using what I home roast gives me incredible extractions and quite consistently as well.

JonWoo187

HarveyMushman Why pay attention to ANY reviewer’s opinion? To be honest all that makes a damn is what works for your use, in your environment, etc. I often see people somewhat discount themselves by starting out with the ’well I’m no expert with _____'… As if there’s some perfectionist everyone should follow, lmao. I always go against the grain with pretty much everything in life as I refuse to get swept into the FOMOR and can easily find a way to make what I have in front of me to work exactly the way I expect it to. It’s hilarious how much attention the modern single dose grinder/burr fad has gotten like some sort of mindblowing breakthrough. If more enthusiasts would put more focus on their applied skill and the coffees being used they wouldn’t have to resort to all the hyped crap that comes along.

Fraussie

I’ve owned 3 of the Chinese designed/made 64mm grinders and a Single Dose Eureka Mignon Oro and I’ve been disappointed with all of them. Under the 995 euro price point, it seems actually hard to find a single dose grinder that does all the basics well. To beat the competition, it seems that Mazzer doesn’t really need to release a “special” grinder they just need to release a single dose grinder that works as advertised and produce it on a large scale with low QC issues. With their decades of experience, I imagine Mazzer is well placed to do that.

DavecUK

Fraussie To beat the competition, it seems that Mazzer doesn’t really need to release a “special” grinder they just need to release a single dose grinder that works as advertised and produce it on a large scale with low QC issues.

Exactly this….welcome to the forum.

HarveyMushman

JonWoo187

Fair point, I don’t disagree.

As the happy owner of a La Marzocco, a Mazzer and a Mahlkönig (and numerous Harleys…) I’m no stranger to ignoring the opinions of others on my ‘overpriced/old fashioned/inferior’ purchasing choices.

And I’ll be buying a Philos regardless.

I just know a lot of people (somewhat understandably if they’re not hugely experienced in coffee) do take the opinions and reviews of others into account so I just like to see genuinely good products get the praise they deserve, and equally the bad ones get the relative criticism.

That way, the genuinely good products sell well, and further developments are made and we all benefit. Otherwise, companies see that mediocre cr*p sells by the tonne and want a piece of it, and we just get more mediocre cr*p.

JonWoo187

HarveyMushman It’s quite entertaining the way the tried/true brands are getting bashed before people even have one in front of them for the most part. Like the Pico/Swan grinders being compared to others when they are seemingly drastically different. Personally will choose a long standing brand as they are still around and doing well for a reason and won’t buy into to all the cheap ‘foreign’ garbage being introduced on a very regular basis. Having good buying options (cheaper tier) can be good, especially for those starting out, but in life you usually get what you pay for.

DavecUK

JonWoo187 It’s quite entertaining the way the tried/true brands are getting bashed before people even have one in front of them for the most part.

Not sure that’s a true reflection of the discussion?

MWJB

JonWoo187 won’t buy into to all the cheap ‘foreign’ garbage being introduced on a very regular basis. Having good buying options (cheaper tier) can be good, especially for those starting out, but in life you usually get what you pay for.

Mazzer are ‘foreign’ to most on this forum (as are most coffee gear manufacturers). I’m sure many of use are ‘foreigners’ with respect to each other, which is normal online, but you seem to use the term in a negative context here?

Mazzer have largely not got involved in the single dose game (there was the ZM but uptake seemed poor). Most Mazzers in the home environment, from what I have seen were ‘on demand’ grinders that may/may not have been modified for single dose use.

Perhaps their popularity in the commercial market explains their previous lack of interest in this niche of the market.

HarveyMushman

MWJB Perhaps their popularity in the commercial market explains their previous lack of interest in this niche of the market.

I think this must be a huge part of why the ZM wasn’t talked about much. For starters it was/is unbelievably expensive and massive and I’m still not convinced there’s any significant market for single dosed espresso in a commercial setting.

MediumRoastSteam

HarveyMushman and the knocker

The knocker itself, in my opinion, puts me right off. A well designed product should not need the knocker - for a single dose grinder, coffee should go in and come out without knocking, bashing, bellowing, etc. I might be wrong but, from what I see on videos, the knocking is a mandatory step, rather than an optional step to get a significant portion of the grinds out.

MWJB

MediumRoastSteam I don’t have the Philos, but generally I am seeing the small amount of retained chaff is more related to the bean/roast, than the grinder.

A knocker gives you options on whether you can include this element in your actual dose, or knock after dosing & exclude it, if using a chaffy coffee. You also have the option of a quick stir with a wet teaspoon handle RDT.

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