Mazzer Philos

HarveyMushman

I suppose they might’ve realised that their burrs (both flat and conical) are in (or an option in) 99% of the home focussed grinders that have sold really well and been well received over the past 10 years.

And they want a piece of that market.

I’m still not convinced it’s a commercial grinder. Mainly for the fact I’ve not actually seen a single dose grinder used for espresso commercially ever. Not saying it doesn’t happen but I’ve been in a lot of third-wave shops and the espresso is always on-demand. For obvious reasons.

Adrianmsmith

HarveyMushman

I assume those who say it’s a commercial grinder do so as it is much better built to last than a lot of home focussed models are.

I don’t get it. Is the main issue that it is too good as a home grinder?

Next we will be saying Kafatek must be commercial as its too expensive to be a home focussed grinder! Made by Skoda not Lada!!

dfk41

Adrianmsmith Has the philos been announced as a failure or have Mazzer announced it was a mistake or that sales figures have failed to meet expectations?

None of them as far as I know, but I was making a suggestion why the Philos has not been adulated by the usual suspects. Ford are one of the few car companies that have a stable from the cheap and cheerful through to luxury and sporting cars, yet each marque seems to hold its own despite the Ford badge. I still think as an opinion, nothing more nothing less, that Mazzer will find it hard to shake off a reputation build on solidness over many years

Adrianmsmith

dfk41

Anyway, on another note, various threads on Facebook, Reddit and “other forums” where all the important people hang out would suggest people like you and me need certifying for ordering or owning such an outrageous, ugly and over priced Kafatek. Personally I know they are all wrong!!

FadedFrontiers

Adrianmsmith I assume those who say it’s a commercial grinder do so as it is much better built to last than a lot of home focussed models are.

I don’t get it. Is the main issue that it is too good as a home grinder?

They call it commercial on the Mazzer site

InfamousTuba No kafatek’s in cafes in the UK so far but they don’t have any distribution in Europe so most cafes wouldn’t want to choose them yet.

It wouldn’t make much sense for a busy cafe to run a machine that has such low RPMs for espresso drinks.

dfk41

I cannot see how any single dosing grinder can really be labelled as commercial unless you are referring to build quality and longevity. The exception perhaps is the EK when used commercially for brewed coffee or grinding to sell ground coffee

dfk41

Adrianmsmith Anyway, on another note, various threads on Facebook, Reddit and “other forums” where all the important people hang out would suggest people like you and me need certifying for ordering or owning such an outrageous, ugly and over priced Kafatek. Personally I know they are all wrong!!

I know for a fact that some of them bought DF 83’s on the first crowdfunding run……strange that they never mention them……luckily, this forum is the extent of my social media and as you know, I do not give a rat’s ass what anyone thinks of me Lance

InfamousTuba

Single dosing using something apart from an EK43 is getting more popular in cafes, I can think of ⅘ in Edinburgh and more in london that have dedicated single dose grinder that aren’t EK43. So far I have seen a couple of ditting 807s, a Titus nautilus and a few Weber EG1’s. No kafatek’s in cafes in the UK so far but they don’t have any distribution in Europe so most cafes wouldn’t want to choose them yet.

The EK is still the most commonly used grinder because it is multipurpose and ubiquitous but there is definitely a growing market for another single dose grinder, I just don’t think the philos is going to fill that gap

HarveyMushman

Which London shops are using them? That’s my manor and I’ve only seen EK’s used for filter, no espresso single dosing.

Admittedly I’m talking East London so not clued up on the central ones.

InfamousTuba

HarveyMushman

Nostos in orchard place has 2 Titus nautilus grinders (one for filter and one for espresso) on their premium bar, formative single dose espresso as well. I think scenery uses an EG-1 as well although I haven’t been there yet. There are others but I can’t remember off the top of my head unfortunately

Platypus

I think Tom’s review was right on the nail as I think it’s “pretty darn good”. I own a 98mm grinder and whilst the results can be exceptional , it can also be frustrating .
I find the Philos an excellent all round package and I’m fussy. It’s well made , the 200 burrs give beautiful results and it does what it says on the tin. Maintenance is a dream , no tools needed or torquing faceplates and this is really important to me.
When your backs against the wall with a finicky 98mm burr I find the Philos rescues anything and everything. I have never run out of grind adjustment and it’s just so reliable with brilliant results, decaf has never tasted so good.
I wouldn’t miss my 98mm as much as I would if I parted with the Philos. This is the first 68mm grinder I’ve owned so I can’t compare it to others but if anything happened to it I would buy another tomorrow.

InfamousTuba

FadedFrontiers It wouldn’t make much sense for a busy cafe to run a machine that has such low RPMs for espresso drinks.

Cafes are running Weber EG1’s so I don’t see why a kafatek wouldn’t be used, also these are in addition to standard hopper grinders (usually mahlkonig e80s now) not instead of hopper grinders. These are in very high end cafes like motors coffee in paris, nostos coffee in London or cafēn in Edinburgh. They usually have a traditional menu and then a rare/frozen menu with coffees costing large amounts of money (upwards of £20 and espresso) so a high end single dose grinder is used

Adrianmsmith

FadedFrontiers They call it commercial on the Mazzer site

NO, they do not.

There’s quite a “misunderstanding” between “ Commercial ” and what Mazzer say…….

“Mazzer Philos is a premium light commercial single dose grinder designed to help you get the most out of your coffee. Its elegant and compact design, accurate machining, and sustainable materials make it the ideal choice for demanding baristas looking for quality in small spaces. It is suitable for all extraction methods, from espresso to batch brew.”

As for the EK43 i see more of those in shops and roasters from grinding 1ib or 1kg instantly for customers.

Generally in Cafes and coffee shops I tend to see Mazzer models. NOT Philos to be clear.

HarveyMushman

InfamousTuba

Nice, thanks. I’ve not been to any of these kind of spots with tasting bars etc. Most of my go-to’s are the more traditional third-wave spots like Ozone and AllPress or Dark Arts. That probably explains why they’re just using the on-demand faithfuls.

Will be interesting to see what the Titus is like, always wondered.

InfamousTuba

HarveyMushman

The freeze distilled milk flat white in nostos was worth the money, usually I go for the more normal offerings but occasionally it can be good to spend more money just to see if it is worth it

FadedFrontiers

InfamousTuba Cafes are running Weber EG1’s so I don’t see why a kafatek wouldn’t be used, also these are in addition to standard hopper grinders (usually mahlkonig e80s now) not instead of hopper grinders. These are in very high end cafes like motors coffee in paris, nostos coffee in London or cafēn in Edinburgh. They usually have a traditional menu and then a rare/frozen menu with coffees costing large amounts of money (upwards of £20 and espresso) so a high end single dose grinder is used

Sure I get that but even in the States where they are more easily available you might find an EG1 in some high end cafes, Kafateks aren’t really used commercially afaik. Even Denis says they’re not suitable for cafes, while EG1s were developed with commercial settings in mind, so that’s probably a big factor too.

Adrianmsmith “NO, they do not.
There’s quite a “misunderstanding” between “ Commercial ” and what Mazzer say…….

Mazzer Philos is a premium light commercial single dose grinder designed to help you get the most out of your coffee. Its elegant and compact design, accurate machining, and sustainable materials make it the ideal choice for demanding baristas looking for quality in small spaces. It is suitable for all extraction methods, from espresso to batch brew.”

Are you suggesting “light commercial” and for “single dose barista grinder” does not in fact mean it is for commercial use? How many times do they mention home?

They even state themselves they wanted to develop a single dose grinder suitable for commercial use in the promo vids 🤣 are you having me on?

https://youtu.be/QM6EStWm1kc?feature=shared

HarveyMushman

Thanks.

This is a whole new world to me and sounds like it could have a very expensive ending.

Adrianmsmith

FadedFrontiers Are you suggesting “light commercial” and for “single dose barista grinder” does not in fact mean it is a commercial grinder?

Yes.

InfamousTuba

FadedFrontiers Even Denis says they’re not suitable for cafes

You are right, that is the main factor. If the owner of the company doesn’t want them in cafes then cafes are not likely to buy them because they won’t have the support as far as repairs or problems.

It would be nice to see more kafatek grinders in cafes, I think they would definitely stand up to being used for single dosing in a cafe environment

FadedFrontiers

InfamousTuba yeah same, it would be nice to see more variety in cafes - and those motors would surely have no problem if they weren’t a primary grinder anyway.

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