Mazzer Philos

Jason1wood

Adrianmsmith that’s the fella. 👌

Cuprajake

HarveyMushman need to tick the influencer box, get them to shill it, do a limited drop with a big count down clock

Think at a grand it’s an awkward place to be, it’s more than alot would spend

HarveyMushman

Yeah true. Barely any of the influencer set have covered it. I noticed even Hoffman is using the Zerno. Another relatively unknown manufacturer yet enormously hyped. People were already saying the Zerno was better than the Philos before they’d even used either.

Admittedly it looks good and seems pretty well reviewed but it’s insanely expensive to get hold of in the UK, even if you can get one due to waitlists and popularity, which goes back to my point above.

Cuprajake

It’s just cliquey, I take no notice now CBA,

Way to many invested interests with data made to provide what ever agenda they have.

It’s generally about clicks and making money not really caring who they step on upon the way, so I don’t watch any of it anymore. Finger well and truly off the pulse

FadedFrontiers

HarveyMushman honestly even 83 is getting to be pretty saturated now, 80 would be the size to get enthusiasts excited - without straying into silly sizes of course 😁

While the 1k mark was lower than many were expecting for Mazzer it just isn’t competitive price for a big mass produced 64mm grinder at all. Zerno costs more in the UK yes but the fact it’s got this reputation for being small, handmade, low volume, high tolerance and constantly tweaked in reaction to feedback is what makes it worth the extra for those already spending alot on a grinder. Its limited availability helps too of course.

If I ran a cafe I’d rather have the Philos over it no question though..

HarveyMushman

I’ll still stand by the 200D burrs being a differentiator. As I understand it, they don’t work brilliantly well in any other grinder. I’ve not tried the SSP MP so not sure how they compare but I’ve not found a better multi-purpose burr that does both filter and espresso so fantastically well.

Also, for me there’s an element of comfort from knowing a company I’m spending £1000 with is highly likely to be around in future for support/repairs. Obviously we’ve seen some success stories like Niche and hopefully others will continue to thrive but it does concern me that some of these new companies may well not exist in say 10 years time. And if you have issues, you’ve then got a rather expensive paperweight.

Sign of the times though I suppose, most people don’t keep things long enough these days for that to be an issue.

FadedFrontiers

HarveyMushman yeah I’d be interested to try side by sides with them, SSP MP are really only multipurpose in the sense that they do modern espresso and filter well.

Agreed on the longevity front, although a big bonus with the likes of the DF series is that it is relatively modular with pretty standard parts like a motor which you can replace should you need to.

I wonder if reviews in the future will ever focus on stress testing and longevity, much like in the AV space where outlets like RTings will subject TVs to extreme testing to suggest an expected lifespan.

Adrianmsmith

The thing I do not get is why people keep quoting that Philos as a £1,000 / £1k grinder and then go on to say how good the zerno is that its ridiculous price.

Have some of you purchased the philos from some of those rip-off UK suppliers that are easy to find on Google? Did you not all purchase direct from Mazzer?

I’m sure if I was selling something on here for £880 none of you would say no. That’s okay. I’ll give you a grand. Keep the change.

I have not looked if there has been a recent price increase but I paid £880 so adding the 189 burrs which I purchase later to add to the 200 burrs. I did pay a grand in total.

The build quality of this cannot be compared to some of those cheap Chinese 64 mm grinders. It is built like a tank and feels like it will last your lifetime. I do not know how you all expect it to be the same price as a cheap Chinese mass produced grinder.

I have still not had time to compare to the SSP burrs Which I still have on free loan from @Raja123 🤭

You will all be complaining next about Italian coffee machines or decent etc not being £800 because breville can do it. They all do the same job so they should all be the same price right? Regardless of what’s inside them!

I have no vested interest in any company but find it strange sometimes some of the comments on this forum where I would expect some of you to understand why certain products at certain quality levels from certain countries cost more than Chinese ones even though Apple are made in China!

FadedFrontiers

Adrianmsmith The thing I do not get is why people keep quoting that Philos as a £1,000 / £1k grinder and then go on to say how good the zerno is that its ridiculous price.

Don’t see anyone making this point at all, we’ve just been discussing why Philos hasn’t been as popular as Zerno. At the end of the day Zerno has been targeted at the kinds of home users willing to pay that much for a grinder, while Philos is a commercial machine first and foremost, sitting at an awkward price for with lots of competition for home users. Nobody complaining here as far as I can see. 👍

The build quality of this cannot be compared to some of those cheap Chinese 64 mm grinders. It is built like a tank and feels like it will last your lifetime. I do not know how you all expect it to be the same price as a cheap Chinese mass produced grinder.

I think your point about quality would be more compelling if there hadn’t been several complaints about the quality of the Philos’ face plate, the wear to the area by the grind cup and the general way the two upper halves assemble. But for longevity I’ve already said I’d expect it to be very dependable, then again I’ve also tried Chinese grinders built like tanks that I’d also expect to last very long.

You will all be complaining next about Italian coffee machines or decent etc not being £800 because breville can do it. They all do the same job so they should all be the same price right? Regardless of what’s inside them!

If that was the case we’d be saying Zerno should also be cheaper…

I have no vested interest in any company but find it strange sometimes some of the comments on this forum where I would expect some of you to understand why certain products at certain quality levels from certain countries cost more than Chinese ones even though Apple are made in China!

Well you do because you have one and you evidently feel compelled to defend it. That’s fine but don’t take a few comments discussing how it’s not been more popular as an attack on it. Looks like a good machine regardless!

dfk41

Can I make a suggestion? Mazzer have a solid reputation as a commercial workhorse. Reliable, will never let you down. That is what their badge stands for. To then try and move out from that market is in my view a mistake, regardless of how good or bad the product is.
If someone very rich brought the Lada name back to life, then introduced a supercar capable of taking on the best of them, do you think they would sell many?

Adrianmsmith

dfk41

Has the philos been announced as a failure or have Mazzer announced it was a mistake or that sales figures have failed to meet expectations?

dfk41

Adrianmsmith Has the philos been announced as a failure or have Mazzer announced it was a mistake or that sales figures have failed to meet expectations?

None of them as far as I know, but I was making a suggestion why the Philos has not been adulated by the usual suspects. Ford are one of the few car companies that have a stable from the cheap and cheerful through to luxury and sporting cars, yet each marque seems to hold its own despite the Ford badge. I still think as an opinion, nothing more nothing less, that Mazzer will find it hard to shake off a reputation build on solidness over many years

HarveyMushman

I suppose they might’ve realised that their burrs (both flat and conical) are in (or an option in) 99% of the home focussed grinders that have sold really well and been well received over the past 10 years.

And they want a piece of that market.

I’m still not convinced it’s a commercial grinder. Mainly for the fact I’ve not actually seen a single dose grinder used for espresso commercially ever. Not saying it doesn’t happen but I’ve been in a lot of third-wave shops and the espresso is always on-demand. For obvious reasons.

Adrianmsmith

HarveyMushman

I assume those who say it’s a commercial grinder do so as it is much better built to last than a lot of home focussed models are.

I don’t get it. Is the main issue that it is too good as a home grinder?

Next we will be saying Kafatek must be commercial as its too expensive to be a home focussed grinder! Made by Skoda not Lada!!

Adrianmsmith

dfk41

Anyway, on another note, various threads on Facebook, Reddit and “other forums” where all the important people hang out would suggest people like you and me need certifying for ordering or owning such an outrageous, ugly and over priced Kafatek. Personally I know they are all wrong!!

FadedFrontiers

Adrianmsmith I assume those who say it’s a commercial grinder do so as it is much better built to last than a lot of home focussed models are.

I don’t get it. Is the main issue that it is too good as a home grinder?

They call it commercial on the Mazzer site

InfamousTuba No kafatek’s in cafes in the UK so far but they don’t have any distribution in Europe so most cafes wouldn’t want to choose them yet.

It wouldn’t make much sense for a busy cafe to run a machine that has such low RPMs for espresso drinks.

dfk41

I cannot see how any single dosing grinder can really be labelled as commercial unless you are referring to build quality and longevity. The exception perhaps is the EK when used commercially for brewed coffee or grinding to sell ground coffee

dfk41

Adrianmsmith Anyway, on another note, various threads on Facebook, Reddit and “other forums” where all the important people hang out would suggest people like you and me need certifying for ordering or owning such an outrageous, ugly and over priced Kafatek. Personally I know they are all wrong!!

I know for a fact that some of them bought DF 83’s on the first crowdfunding run……strange that they never mention them……luckily, this forum is the extent of my social media and as you know, I do not give a rat’s ass what anyone thinks of me Lance

InfamousTuba

Single dosing using something apart from an EK43 is getting more popular in cafes, I can think of ⅘ in Edinburgh and more in london that have dedicated single dose grinder that aren’t EK43. So far I have seen a couple of ditting 807s, a Titus nautilus and a few Weber EG1’s. No kafatek’s in cafes in the UK so far but they don’t have any distribution in Europe so most cafes wouldn’t want to choose them yet.

The EK is still the most commonly used grinder because it is multipurpose and ubiquitous but there is definitely a growing market for another single dose grinder, I just don’t think the philos is going to fill that gap

HarveyMushman

Which London shops are using them? That’s my manor and I’ve only seen EK’s used for filter, no espresso single dosing.

Admittedly I’m talking East London so not clued up on the central ones.

InfamousTuba

HarveyMushman

Nostos in orchard place has 2 Titus nautilus grinders (one for filter and one for espresso) on their premium bar, formative single dose espresso as well. I think scenery uses an EG-1 as well although I haven’t been there yet. There are others but I can’t remember off the top of my head unfortunately

Platypus

I think Tom’s review was right on the nail as I think it’s “pretty darn good”. I own a 98mm grinder and whilst the results can be exceptional , it can also be frustrating .
I find the Philos an excellent all round package and I’m fussy. It’s well made , the 200 burrs give beautiful results and it does what it says on the tin. Maintenance is a dream , no tools needed or torquing faceplates and this is really important to me.
When your backs against the wall with a finicky 98mm burr I find the Philos rescues anything and everything. I have never run out of grind adjustment and it’s just so reliable with brilliant results, decaf has never tasted so good.
I wouldn’t miss my 98mm as much as I would if I parted with the Philos. This is the first 68mm grinder I’ve owned so I can’t compare it to others but if anything happened to it I would buy another tomorrow.

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