I am thinking about home roasting, what are the benefits please and where does everyone source their greens from please? Thank you

@"Cuprajake"#p64140 have you tried any Jake, may be few benefits but why not lol and where’s the best source please?

Bought an Ikawa Home about five months ago and haven’t bought any roasted beans since (other than one for the packaging I liked!). Absolutely love it. You’ll have to take my word on this but I can quite happily roast beans to a quality on par with plenty of commercial roasts I’ve had. I will say that a big part of this is that the Ikawa is an absolute breeze to use and you can basically press one button and get great roasts if you want. Manual roasting with some of the other home roasters that require venting is probably a much less forgiving and therefore less enjoyable process for a beginner. I roast 500g a week - 250g filter and 250g espresso. Takes under an hour and I just do it next to a window in the kitchen. Big plus of the Ikawa is that it cools the beans so you can bag them pretty much immediately. Despite the 100g capacity, you can preload 100g in the hopper so it’s just one button to start the next batch. For light roasts I get about 10% loss so 85-90g yield in a 100g charge. Depending on your preference on beans you can ultimately save money although not for a while given the cost of the roaster. I was buying med-light roasts for £35-50 a kilo, and I can now roast similar for about £10-15 a kilo. I’ve actually recently roasted Ethiopian greens from the same farm as a commercial roaster I like and whilst it wasn’t quite as refined as the commercial roast, it was very good. I’ve graduated to using non-Ikawa greens and building my own profiles through cupping and trial/error lately and I really enjoy the process as a hobby. I’ve learned a lot about the roast process too and how different temperatures and rates of rise affect output. The Ikawa app makes learning easier as you’ve got a visual reference graph. Green sources can change depending on availability. Ikawa beans are great but very pricey compared to others. The bonus is for beginners you get the associated roast profiles to just load onto the machine. Micro Green Coffee Collective are also great. Redber are good for more traditional beans. Happy to answer any questions on the Ikawa if you have any.

Haha Yeah I had a sandwich box smart roaster, had greens from a few places I forget the name now, Problem is good quality greens cost more in small quantities, then you have to roast a kilo of beans, that kilo yields less due to the moisture. So I found for me, the cost of the roaster and then good greens plus messing up etc, ment that I could buy very good roasted beans for less There's a massive fun factor, and in itch I had to scratch.

> @"Cuprajake"#p64145 Problem is good quality greens cost more in small quantities, Yeah this is a consideration for sure. You’ll not get the best prices until you’re buying 5kg+ usually.

@"HarveyMushman"#p64150 where would you recommend for the best prices please? And would that just be one bean or could it be a multi buy total weight being 5kg say. I know you can keep greens for a fair time before roasting, is it best to freeze them or what please?

It is another hobby. Don't expect to save money unless you drink a lot and/or drink really expensive coffee. A good roaster which is reliable enough to roast fancy bean is > 1000 EUR and you will need to spend significant amount of time learning to roast. A very good bean is around 15-20 EUR/kg, which is around 18-25 EUR roasted (15-20% weightloss). Those are usually sold for 35-50 EUR roasted, so do your math. Undeniable benefit of home roasting is you get fresh bean when you want how you want, but think about smoke and smell if you don't have a ventilated/dedicated area for roasting. It is fun but definitely not for everyone.

@"Teaboy"#p64151 depends on where you live. Assuming Uk, then hasbean, falcon micro, coffeelink. You can buy in batch (suggest to start with 5kg to see if you can go long term). Green beans are said to be best within 12 months of harvesting but 24m old beans are still very good if store properly (dry, cold, dark place). I buy 86+ beans for around 13-14EUR/kg and those go for 40 if not 50EUR where I live so with our consumption, quite a bit of saving. Still not even yet but I can try different beans which is a huge plus for me

@"delta76"#p64153 thank you, I am only looking to roast small amounts to begin with hopefully to get things right, I tried to order some roasted beans from hasbean the other day and the company is no more unfortunately.

@"Teaboy"#p64151 https://micro.greencoffeecollective.com/products/tulipe-nanegal?_pos=9&_fid=ff20518fe&_ss=c For example. They have a lot of greens available with low minimums. Best prices are just buying one bean. Greens are nowhere near as sensitive as roasted to storage. I don’t freeze them, just in a pegged up bag but then I haven’t kept any for more than a few months yet.

Greens

delta76

Teaboy up to 20kg is 20 EUR, so once you decide roasting is the right hobby, you can decide if you want to/should buy 10kg or 20kg. they give discount for bulk order. for example if you buy this coffee https://88graines.com/product/catuai-natural/, 10kg + shipping + coupon ends up around 12 EUR/kg - not sure about tax and custom but I think green coffee is 0% tax in UK ? Of course if you only buy a few kg it is not so attractive
I have no affiliation with them, just a happy customer. They are registered in France but ship out from Poland - I guess for tax reasons as VAT in France is lower (20% vs 23%)
My suggestion to a new home roaster is to buy some good, cheap beans, like Brazilian (I have seen many 84-85 beans for less than 10 EUR/kg) to practice roasting. Then you can experiment as you want without wasting a lot of money (unless you do something really wrong then you would still get drinkable coffee most of the time)

HarveyMushman

delta76 My suggestion to a new home roaster is to buy some good, cheap beans, like Brazilian

Yeah I would second this. There’re pretty forgiving as well as relatively low cost.

I forgot to add, I had an email or something from Ikawa or I saw it on their website that they do a subsidised roaster where you pay a lower upfront price for the roaster and then £30 a month subscription which translates to credit to spend on their store.

Their cost table is slightly swayed by the fact you probably wouldn’t only buy beans from them if you bought the roaster outright but as above, their greens are very good.

Edit: here it is -

https://ikawahome.com/products/subscription-by-ikawa-roaster-subscription?variant=40887745347759&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20285486576&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADEx6yrPp4N9eOP7exzdxXGFJqhcp&gclid=CjwKCAjw_LOwBhBFEiwAmSEQASvhaZDQJWBB_TlSOPflO807D9r_h9LqjXIU7_2MgN3ysuZp0xrr_BoCs8EQAvD_BwE

JonWoo187

For yrs I bought commercial artisan roasted coffee from some quality setups here in the U.S. I did grow tired of the increasing price as well as the trend moving towards lighter roasted garbage. Decided to build my own setup, buy quality green and just figure it out. I didn’t waste time reading into what others do or pay attention to the commonly mentioned lame guidelines for ‘proper’ roasting, just built my setup to do exactly as I expected it, churned through various green knowing what I want for espresso and it just took off. I can roast when I want, to the exact flavor/texture profile I want and save 40-50% in the process. Will honestly say that I do not miss any commercial roasted coffee I used to buy as what I consistently churn out is easily on par with any of the better stuff I had over the yrs bought roasted. To those that think home roasting can’t match commercial or it won’t save money just can’t figure things out for themselves. My setup has long paid for itself and now just the cost of bulk green/shipping, etc. Typical 19.7 gram extraction averages around .40 (USD) based on my current choice in green. I often have as much as 90 lbs of green onhand as I average roasting at least 10 lbs monthly, so nothing sits that long. I know for fact through lots of experimentation that green stored in a decent environment will last quite awhile with no real degradation and I’m not the least bit concerned using green that is 1-2 yrs since harvest. As long as I wake up with a pulse and hands I’ll NEVER buy roasted coffee again….

HarveyMushman

I do think people overestimate the quality of commercial roasts if they’ve not tried roasting themselves. Sure there are many great commercial roasters but a lot are also mediocre at best.

Another thing to consider is it’s a whole lot easier to get consistent, quality roasts when you’re roasting 100-1000g at a time compared to 25kg.

My biggest challenge with home roasting is convincing myself I don’t need a Diedrich IR-1 or Probatino.

Teaboy

HarveyMushman I’m not thinking of Ikawa as cost vs benefit analysis is leaning me towards something similar say kaffelogic.

HarveyMushman

Teaboy

Fair enough. There is quite a price difference. I think you can also get graphing software for the Kaffeelogic. I’d say that’s the most crucial thing for a beginner as it’s good to have a visual representation of how the temperature is behaving along a timeline.

delta76

Teaboy I went with an used KL + new chaff collector + boost kit, and am very happy with it. Could not justify the cost of Ikawa (+ VAT, easily double what I paid for with less capacity)
I’d suggest to try buying used though. Make sure you can make it work for you - as I said it’s a hobby, a fairly niche even, so you can resell without losing too much value. And then you also need to think about capacity. I have been thinking about Bullet for a while as roasting in bigger batches is … more appealing to me.

Teaboy

delta76 I am hoping on one soon, I think they roast a large amount in comparison to the Ikawa with the extra kit. I don’t want to go big into roasting as can only get through soo much coffee without being too over caffeinated lol and I am not a fan of decaf unless Swiss water treatment or the like as some decaf is done by acids.

delta76

Teaboy no it’s not necessary the next step, just a possibility. Many people are happy with the sample sized roaster for strictly personal consumption. I for one like to roast so I am making excuses to roast for friends, so a bigger roaster is my next step.
And yes for me the boost kit is a great purchase, you will not able to roast 200gr without beans getting into the chaff collector, but for me the flexibility to roast 50-160gr is great. like when I have 80gr left over, without the boost kit I would have to adjust the fan curve. with it, only select the load size at the beginning of the roast.
In any cases, good luck and enjoy!

Teaboy

delta76 I think they are doing a new chad collector to overcome the issue?

delta76

Teaboy I am not aware of new chaff collector, the glass one is the “new”. I have several roasts where some of the beans flew in to the “collectors” - mostly when I added too many beans, the beans are small (Ethiopians) or the profiles have more aggressive fan curve. Not a big thing but not fun as you are supposed to collect the beans and weigh them (before throwing them away)

Teaboy

delta76 do you get on well with the graphs ie have you developed many yourself and shared them online or have you found lots of good ones?

delta76

Teaboy Do you mean profiles? There are more than I could use from the internet (forum, fb group, discord). I picked the most popular and start with them. Most of the times I just change the preheat power, without adjusting the curve. The combination of profiles, beans and roast levels are basically unlimited so prepare to be overwhelmed. But you can stick with some popular ones and be fine (pro tips, be organized, and document everything)

HarveyMushman

Also, and I can’t stress this enough - let your roasts rest for a few days before drinking. It’s tempting to just grind your fresh roast straight away and make a coffee but it almost certainly won’t taste good.

Most of mine seem best after 4 or 5 days but it can be as low as 3 days.

Dan

Can I check why there is so much of a difference between large batch roasted resting times, which seem much longer (min 10 days seemingly?) than ikawa and kaffelogic?

I have a gene cafe and the minimum rest time seems to be two weeks. Is the C02 released more quickly in the sample roasters like the ikawa?

HarveyMushman

Dan

I wouldn’t have thought batch size affects it, I think it’s more down to the coffee/process/roast.

10 days seems like a long time though unless you’re talking about really light roasts? 5-7 days seems pretty common and it was what I’d typically rest a commercial roast for before I started roasting at home.

edit: I just Googled a bit and it seems 7-14 days isn’t uncommon.

The roasts I’ve done are past their best at 14 days, even 10 and it doesn’t have the quality I find between 5-10 days.

delta76

Dan from my own experience, lighter roast = longer resting time. My own rules, not necessarily perfect:

very dark: 1 day
dark: 3-5 days
medium dark: 5-7 days
medium: 7 days
medium light: 7-10 days
light: 10-14 days
very light: 14 days+
some people claim that for very light coffee it could take 1 month to fully develop, I have never had coffee in the two ends of spectrum so I don’t know.
it’s important to note that the “dark” or “light” are relative, especially if you buy roasted coffee. A medium coffee from another roaster can be actually (closer) medium light to another, and medium dark to another. So try and adjust as you go.
it is said that fluid bed roasted coffee looses flavor quicker than the drum roasted, but I haven’t found that research. Rob hoos for once said you can’t taste the roaster, meaning as long as you match phases and temps, the coffee would taste the same (but he tested with drum roasters)

HarveyMushman

delta76 very dark: 1 day
dark: 3-5 days
medium dark: 5-7 days
medium: 7 days
medium light: 7-10 days
light: 10-14 days
very light: 14 days+

I need to revisit my resting times I think. I’m obviously resting them way too little. I never drink anything darker than medium but I’m only resting 5 days. Tastes good to me but maybe it’ll taste better after a few more days.

Teaboy

Kaffelogic has a program for ready to drink apparently.

delta76

Teaboy it’s mediocre. I would recommend to avoid it if you can. Plan ahead and roast a few days before and you’ll be good. You can’t cheat physic and chemistry

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